Author Topic: Do I Stand a Chance at Tribunal?  (Read 2494 times)

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Do I Stand a Chance at Tribunal?
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Hello fellow forum members,

I'm seeking your advice on whether I have a strong case to escalate my parking ticket appeal to the tribunal. Here's a brief rundown of the situation:

Parking Suspension Location: The council indicated that a parking suspension was in place between 19 - 25 Atherton Road.

My Parking Location: On the day in question, I parked in front of 27 Atherton Road, which is outside the suspension zone. (The council claimed the rear portion of my car fell within the suspension zone)

Timeline: I appealed against the ticket on 26 June. They only responded to my appeal on 6 September, which, to my understanding, exceeds the 56 days allowed for a response.

The council rejected my appeal. Given these circumstances, do you believe I have a good chance at the tribunal? Has anyone faced a similar situation or have insights about the 56-day rule?

Appreciate any guidance or experiences you can share. Thanks in advance!


https://imgur.com/a/Exg4sq9

https://imgur.com/a/Op29Urk

https://imgur.com/a/8GbJMdT

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Re: Do I Stand a Chance at Tribunal?
« Reply #1 on: »
Please post up both sides of the PCN (unredacted) and a GSV link to ther location. Were there any other Council photos?

Re: Do I Stand a Chance at Tribunal?
« Reply #2 on: »
Here from the photos a good chance but first you must make formal representations to the council when you receive the NTO. It is that representation that is subject to the 56 day limit

Here
https://goo.gl/maps/ED7WDRgdt8egx2gW7
IMO the photos do not prove a contravention
« Last Edit: September 10, 2023, 12:38:27 am by cp8759 »

Re: Do I Stand a Chance at Tribunal?
« Reply #3 on: »
We certainly need to see the PCN itself but in the meantime here is a link to the temporary parking suspension authorisation for Lambeth as granted by the DfT. It dates from 2012 but appears to be the current one. Note the difference as between "Parking Suspension" as authorised and "Parking Suspended" as per the sign in the photograph. Also the different positioning of the No Loading wording. Unfortunately I think too minor to get you off at LTs as the meaning is clear. Better to concentrate on the position of the car.

https://assets.dft.gov.uk/trafficauths/case-3523.pdf


Re: Do I Stand a Chance at Tribunal?
« Reply #4 on: »
Yes, let us see the complete PCN, cover nothing up and then we can study the complete picture.

You have a chance at the tribunal but we are one step ahead of ourselves as you do not have the Notice to Owner yet (and it should already have been sent but is not late enough to be out of time).
I help you pro bono (for free). I now ask that a £40 donation is made to the North London Hospice before I take over your case. I have an 85% success rate across 2,000 PCNs but some PCNs can't be beaten and I will tell you if your case looks hopeless before asking you to donate.

Re: Do I Stand a Chance at Tribunal?
« Reply #5 on: »
The suspension sign specifically says 4 car spaces outside of 19-25.
Where are the spaces?
The authority seem to be taking is as the parking bay  outside of 19-25 including all the frontage of the two end houses.
Being as they seem to lack clarity on their suspension sign, penalising for what would only be a minimal intrusion into the area fronted by no 25 seems a bit rich.
As does the one CEo photo we have that is taken at an angle, visually increasing any overlap.

Re: Do I Stand a Chance at Tribunal?
« Reply #6 on: »

The parking place is continuous and extends from the junction with Abercrombie to well beyond the boundaries of 19-25;
There are no internal markings indicating parking spaces;
Traffic signs are situated o/s the flank wall of 19/21 and at the junction with Abercrombie;
The authority's response in support of their rejection states 'a suspension sign was visible one car length in front of the vehicle'.

IMO, given the traffic direction and that the only sign you had passed was o/s 19/21 then it is whether this sign carried a suspension sign which is key and not a sign which wasn't even in the suspended area. IMO, the authority's burden is to show that the only sign post situated within the suspended area carried a suspension sign, not one 'one car length ahead'.

But there isn't any evidence to this effect as far as I can see. OP, do you have other photos showing a suspension sign o/s 19-21?

..and 'one car length ahead of your car' means the rear of your car couldn't have been within the suspended area - not the strongest point, just picking up on their so-called rationale.

Re: Do I Stand a Chance at Tribunal?
« Reply #7 on: »
......

IMO, given the traffic direction and that the only sign you had passed was o/s 19/21 then it is whether this sign carried a suspension sign which is key and not a sign which wasn't even in the suspended area. IMO, the authority's burden is to show that the only sign post situated within the suspended area carried a suspension sign, not one 'one car length ahead'.

But there isn't any evidence to this effect as far as I can see. OP, do you have other photos showing a suspension sign o/s 19-21? .......

That the sign the council is relying on is ahead of the vehicle is irrelevant, a driver is expected to check signs when they park, even if they are ahead of their direction of travel.

The point re signage outside 19/21 is more valid, if there was no suspension sign on that, then the alert motorist would not only see the normal sign but be entitled to rely upon it.

Re: Do I Stand a Chance at Tribunal?
« Reply #8 on: »
I am only making one point re signage i.e. that the council must establish that  there was a suspension sign o/s 19/21 because:

It is the one last passed by the OP;
It is the only one within the suspended area.
Thr council have not as far as we know included this in their evidence.

The point which derives from the sign ahead is their casual reference to being one car length ahead. If they can be as approximate with their measures, which in this case if taken literally must establish that the OP's car was not within the suspended area, then it undermines their credibility as regards their certainty that the car was in the area based upon a single imprecise photo taken at an oblique angle.

Re: Do I Stand a Chance at Tribunal?
« Reply #9 on: »
The council don't have to establish that there was a sign on 19/21, that there was will be assumed unless OP can show different or challenge the council on it and council fail to address.

Re: Do I Stand a Chance at Tribunal?
« Reply #10 on: »

Sorry, cannot accept this, but c'est la vie. There is no reason for a driver to even look at a traffic sign ahead of them when the one they've already and very recently passed showed no additional restriction.

If true...

But it is for the authority to prove IMO in order to meet their 'adequate information' burden.

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Re: Do I Stand a Chance at Tribunal?
« Reply #11 on: »
When you get the NTO post it here we will check it for errors and one of us will draft you a representation

Re: Do I Stand a Chance at Tribunal?
« Reply #12 on: »
I've ordered the suspension logs.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Re: Do I Stand a Chance at Tribunal?
« Reply #13 on: »
@gbawekanu you seem to have fallen off the face of the Earth?

Anyway here are the suspension logs:











I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Re: Do I Stand a Chance at Tribunal?
« Reply #14 on: »
@cp8759 Sorry for going awol, work has been busy lately.

I appreciate your assistance in obtaining the suspension logs. From what I've seen, they appear to be in order. Or do you think there's any information within them that could be useful for my appeal?

I've recently received a Notice to Owner from the council.





« Last Edit: October 18, 2023, 12:01:52 am by cp8759 »