Author Topic: Do I Stand a Chance at Tribunal?  (Read 2495 times)

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Re: Do I Stand a Chance at Tribunal?
« Reply #30 on: »
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Re: Do I Stand a Chance at Tribunal?
« Reply #31 on: »
I would add to my previous point:

There are no marked spaces, therefore 4 car spaces and 19-25 is an ambiguous description because a driver is left thinking does this mean:
a. 4 car spaces measured from no. 19 and how long is a car length; or
b. the whole of the length of road between 19-25;

Ambiguity, which is hardly aided by the lack of a side-on photo from the CEO for reasons which the adjudicator might find odd...in addition to the authority's stance that there is no ambiguity which could only arise if they formed this view based upon the notes only. A photo paints a thousand words.


Re: Do I Stand a Chance at Tribunal?
« Reply #32 on: »
My formal appeal to the council has been rejected.

I received the Notice of Rejection today, the link which I have attached below.

In the appeal, they stated 'The 20 metre (4-car) space outside 19-25 Atherton Street was suspended ....'

There wasn't any '20 metre' written on the suspended sign.

https://imgur.com/a/0lB1H5k

Re: Do I Stand a Chance at Tribunal?
« Reply #33 on: »
They haven't re-offered the discount, so it is now a no-brainer to take them to London Tribunals, because the penalty remains the same and there are no additional costs. You can make the additional point to your previous reps that most motorists don't go around with tape measures in their car to measure whether they comply with asuspension or not.

Re: Do I Stand a Chance at Tribunal?
« Reply #34 on: »
I still want to see the Pcn please
I help you pro bono (for free). I now ask that a £40 donation is made to the North London Hospice before I take over your case. I have an 85% success rate across 2,000 PCNs but some PCNs can't be beaten and I will tell you if your case looks hopeless before asking you to donate.

Re: Do I Stand a Chance at Tribunal?
« Reply #35 on: »

I still want to see the Pcn please

Unfortunately, I have lost the original PCN.

I only have the Notice to Owner.







This is the draft of my appeal to the tribunal.




APPEAL AGAINST PENALTY CHARGE NOTICE-- NO. XXXXXXXX

The Charge

Contravention 21 – Parked wholly or partly in a suspended bay or space.


My appeal is therefore based on the following ground:-

(1) Penalty notice is ambiguous and misleading
The penalty notice refers to ‘4 car spaces outside 19 -25 Atherton Street'.
There are no marked spaces, therefore 4 car spaces and 19-25 is an ambiguous description which is extremely confusing to the average driver.
When I parked my car, I read the suspension notice and diligently made sure that I left the required 4 car spaces behind me from 19 Atherton Street.

In my formal appeal, I have asked the council to show me how it arrived at the conclusion that there were less than 4 car spaces behind my vehicle at the time that I parked. Furthermore, I requested the council to provide me with a copy of whatever evidence they have that proves this point (including their definition of the length of a "car space" and the legal argument they intend to make that justifies this definition) so that I can make an informed decision about taking this case to the parking tribunal.

The council has failed to respond to both requests, so I am not able to effectively defend myself at the tribunal.
With respect, I would refer the adjudicator to ETA 2210026624 and the review of that decision.

Extract of the adjudicator ruling
“I have considered the totality of the evidence before me and I find that I cannot be satisfied on balance that the signage which highlight the suspension is adequate or clear for the purposes of the
authority discharging their duties in demonstrating that the reasonable driver would have been aware of the exact length of the suspended bays. There is some ambiguity as to the length of a bay and further the exact length of the suspension was not properly marked out end to end in order to avoid any ambiguity.
I find therefore given the totality of the evidence before me on balance, which includes lack of adequate signage and the fact that the Appellant's vehicle is seen parked at the very edge of what might be the 5 suspended spaces, then this leads me to the conclude there is some ambiguity as to
whether there is an actual contravention. For these reasons I therefore allow the appeal.”

I would respectfully ask that the PCN be cancelled on the above ground.

Re: Do I Stand a Chance at Tribunal?
« Reply #36 on: »
If you get rejected and go to the tribunal the council will, if they fight on, produce the PCN and I can check it for legaility at that point.

Message to everyone else, keep all your paperwork safe, it may be useful. I'm a bit boring. I still have paperwork on cars I sold years ago which has enabled me to make mis-selling claims for the emissions cheating which has already led to one modest payout.
I help you pro bono (for free). I now ask that a £40 donation is made to the North London Hospice before I take over your case. I have an 85% success rate across 2,000 PCNs but some PCNs can't be beaten and I will tell you if your case looks hopeless before asking you to donate.

Re: Do I Stand a Chance at Tribunal?
« Reply #37 on: »
Forget the detailed appeal for now.  Just register online: Contravention did not occur, I rely upon on my formal representations and will submit full submissions when I receive the council's evidence pack.  Choose:  personal hearing.
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r

Re: Do I Stand a Chance at Tribunal?
« Reply #38 on: »
If you get rejected and go to the tribunal the council will, if they fight on, produce the PCN and I can check it for legaility at that point.

Message to everyone else, keep all your paperwork safe, it may be useful. I'm a bit boring. I still have paperwork on cars I sold years ago which has enabled me to make mis-selling claims for the emissions cheating which has already led to one modest payout.



I have submitted the appeal and will post the PCN when the council produces their evidence. Thanks

Re: Do I Stand a Chance at Tribunal?
« Reply #39 on: »
What have you submitted?
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r

Re: Do I Stand a Chance at Tribunal?
« Reply #40 on: »
What have you submitted?

I have just followed your instructions above to register the appeal. I have not yet drafted the appeal points. Planning to use the draft I wrote earlier, unless board members think it is inadequate.


If you get rejected and go to the tribunal the council will, if they fight on, produce the PCN and I can check it for legaility at that point.

Message to everyone else, keep all your paperwork safe, it may be useful. I'm a bit boring. I still have paperwork on cars I sold years ago which has enabled me to make mis-selling claims for the emissions cheating which has already led to one modest payout.

I have now received the original PCN as part of the council's evidence. Please see the PCN below.

https://imgur.com/a/sRNRWZG

Re: Do I Stand a Chance at Tribunal?
« Reply #41 on: »
The pcn is wrong. Says 28 days from service not from alleged contravention date. Two adjudicators agree with me. I can be the representative at the tribunal. Email mrmustard@zoho.com
I help you pro bono (for free). I now ask that a £40 donation is made to the North London Hospice before I take over your case. I have an 85% success rate across 2,000 PCNs but some PCNs can't be beaten and I will tell you if your case looks hopeless before asking you to donate.