Free Traffic Legal Advice

Hi Everyone,

Just looking for some advice on this one.

Basically, the place I have parked for years recently had some disabled parking signs cable tied to a metal fence in front of the spaces, I obviously missed these due to a couple of reasons.

- This change only happened recently so I have obviously been in autopilot and missed them.
- The bays have been left unmarked.
- The signs are positioned about 3 foot off the ground on the left.
- Due to the car park entrance, you are forced to turn the car away from the signs to the right to reverse into the space which after you are parked your car either partly of wholly covers the signs.

I feel like the council have done a half arsed job by placing the signs so low and also by not marking the bays when they were not originally disabled spaces, so feel a bit cheated on this one but at the same time I made the mistake by not taking notice of the signs.

I have attached some pictures of the entrance into the car park, and my car where it was parked, on the first bay on the left.

Happy to hold my hands up and pay the fine but feel like the council could have done a better job here so could do with some guidance.

Do the bays need to be marked?
Is it appropriate that parked vehicles cover the signs?
Any other thoughts?

Thanks!

Read this:

https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/

and update the title and post.

Apologies, updated now.

Quote from: UnfortunatePotato on Yesterday at 08:25:29 pm

Apologies, updated now.

Please post up both sides of the unredacted PCN and a GSV link to the location.

I know you said unredacted however I censored my reg since I didn't want this on a public forum, if you need this I can provide it privately.

Location: https://maps.app.goo.gl/ohheZqFcoWAbiHWG7

Does each bay have its own sign ?
Your photo shows what I take to be three signs, one per parking bay. Is that correct ?  Basically, your main appeal argument is that the bays are inadequately signed. Whether this would be accepted by the scottish adjudicators you'll only find out by foregoing the discount.

In cases like this, we normally advise an OP to submit an informal challenge, but there is no committment on the PCN to re-offer the discount when rejecting reps that we normally see. Scotland is basically still on the old 1991 legislation, although it has been the normal practice since 1991 to re-offer the discount when rejecting informal challenges to a PCN provided they are received by the council within the discount period.

I have to say the penalty looks very high, much more than in England outside London, (the London penalties are really outrageous, needless to  say)

I didn't expect £100 either tbh, nuts.

Yes 3 signs.

The problem I have is the design of the car park puts these signs into your blind spot when you enter, especially when these spaces are better reversed into. Also if the car park was packed, other cars would have blocked the signs because they are too low. If you look at the placement of the sign on my bay it is not centred and out of view of my rear window so I didn't even see it when I reversed.

I actually moved the trolley in the picture away and remember looking back at my car and did not see the sign because my car was blocking it. If it was above the car I would have seen it and moved the car.

So essentially, your appeal argument is inadequate signage, and if the bay had been marked on the tarmac as well as having the sign, plus the signs being mounted higher up, you'd not have parked there. So submit an informal challenge on those lines and post up their response when you get it.

Thanks, I'll submit an informal appeal. I do fully expect this to be rejected.

Not sure if this changes anything but they have listed the colour of the car as black when it is grey?