3. Derbyshire CC, Code 01 Parking during prescribed hours, Bridge Street Long Eaton
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Derbyshire CC, Code 01 Parking during prescribed hours, Bridge Street Long Eaton
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I am the sole owner/driver of the vehicle, no other person has driven it.

On the 26th February I arrived home late from work and had to park on a single yellow line on Bridge Street in Long Eaton. What I was meant to do was move it on the morning of the 27th before the prescribed time began but unfortunately I forgot.

The next time I used my car on the 29th Feb I discovered and immediately paid a PCN (Parking Charge Notice) dated 28th Feb for parking on a single yellow line during prescribed hours.

Today, I’ve received an Nto (Notice to owner) for a different PCN dated 27th Feb. There was no PCN on my car for this reference on the day I found the other one.

I’ve appealed and asked whether; 1. I can be fined twice for the same issue, 2. Whether the traffic enforcement officer for the second PCN removed the first one? And if not do their photos show 2 PCNs?

** Update
Found their photos from the PCN I paid (28th Feb) and it only shows one PCN (under the windscreen wiper).
Looking back at the photos related to the Nto, I think it looks like it’s not attached properly?

If the PCN was attached to my car, I would have paid the £35 fine at the same time I paid the other one. As per the Nto, I now need to pay £70.

Are the Traffic Enforcement officers under any obligation to properly attach the PCN to my car?

Google Street View - Location of car

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« Last Edit: April 04, 2024, 07:25:32 pm by Staffam87 »
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Re: Derbyshire CC, Code 01 Parking during prescribed hours, Bridge Street Long Eaton
« Reply #1 on: »
You need to tell us more, like how long was the car parked there. PCNs go astray all the time, that's why there is the Notice to Owner stage. Under the legislation, the driver is irrelevant, it is the owner as per the V5 who is responsible for paying or appealing.
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Re: Derbyshire CC, Code 01 Parking during prescribed hours, Bridge Street Long Eaton
« Reply #2 on: »
Have updated the description. Arrived home on evening of 26th Feb, moved it on the Evening of 29th Feb. If I can be fined separately for each day then I’m surprised I didn’t have one on the 29th as well.
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Re: Derbyshire CC, Code 01 Parking during prescribed hours, Bridge Street Long Eaton
« Reply #3 on: »
Please post a GSV link to the exact location of parking.
Your narrative indicates a continuous contravention, so you could argue that issuing more than one PCN is disproportionate as the law is you can only be walloped once for a single offence. 
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Re: Derbyshire CC, Code 01 Parking during prescribed hours, Bridge Street Long Eaton
« Reply #4 on: »
Have amended the link in description so that it’s where the car was.
Link also below;
Location of car
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Re: Derbyshire CC, Code 01 Parking during prescribed hours, Bridge Street Long Eaton
« Reply #5 on: »
It's an 8 am to 6 pm restriction. It would be well worth arguing that your car was parked in continuous contravention as you didn't move the car over the whole period and one PCN only should have been served. However, don't expect them to roll-over and cancel the PCN; this is all about making money with a small traffic mananagement element. Whether you'd win at adjudication, I can't judge. If it were double-yellow lines you'd be on safer ground as these apply 24x7, so see what the others say, but don't miss any deadlines on the PCN.
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Re: Derbyshire CC, Code 01 Parking during prescribed hours, Bridge Street Long Eaton
« Reply #6 on: »
I have requested the traffic order for this road, it's not unheard of that the traffic order is defective or doesn't exist at all.

That being said, where did you get the council photos? The ones you've posted do not show a contravention and it would be helpful to see all of them.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Derbyshire CC, Code 01 Parking during prescribed hours, Bridge Street Long Eaton
« Reply #7 on: »
The photos in the main topic were cropped. See below un-cropped photos related to the Nto

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Re: Derbyshire CC, Code 01 Parking during prescribed hours, Bridge Street Long Eaton
« Reply #8 on: »
Reading the below extract from the Nto, I’ve been asked to pay £70 within 28 days of the contravention. The date of posting (2nd April) is 35 days after the contravention (27th Feb) and I wouldn’t have received the Nto until 36 days.
I was hoping that I’d hear back from my appeal - they said 10 working days - before the fee increased to £105, but in theory they could have already increased it.
Should I pay and hope I can claim it back?

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Re: Derbyshire CC, Code 01 Parking during prescribed hours, Bridge Street Long Eaton
« Reply #9 on: »
Quote from: Staffam87 on April 05, 2024, 11:54:42 am
Reading the below extract from the Nto, I’ve been asked to pay £70 within 28 days of the contravention. The date of posting (2nd April) is 35 days after the contravention (27th Feb) and I wouldn’t have received the Nto until 36 days.
I was hoping that I’d hear back from my appeal - they said 10 working days - before the fee increased to £105, but in theory they could have already increased it.
Should I pay and hope I can claim it back?
@Staffam87 NO! Do not pay or you will lose the money and never get it back!

You're also a genius, and you've found grounds to blow this penalty out of the water: the information on the notice to owner is all wrong, the law says that it should tell you to pay or appeal before the end of 28 days beginning with the date of service of the notice to owner.

You can also establish that there has been a real risk of prejudice, if we weren't here to tell you that the notice is wrong you may well have believed them.

The real position is this: the notice to owner is deemed served on 4 April 2024 so you have until 1 May 2024 to either pay or challenge. If you make representations and they are unsuccessful the penalty stays the same so there's no reason to pay, and more importantly you can appeal to the tribunal where, on a properly argued appeal, you are virtually bound to succeed.

If you want to read the legislation, see regulation 20 of The Civil Enforcement of Road Traffic Contraventions (Approved Devices, Charging Guidelines and General Provisions) (England) Regulations 2022 and regulation 3(2) of The Civil Enforcement of Road Traffic Contraventions (Representations and Appeals) (England) Regulations 2022.

You obviously have not made an appeal as you can't appeal a notice to owner, you can only make representations against it.

So for clarity, when you say you've made an "appeal", do you actually mean you made representations against the notice to owner? Did you do this online and if so did you get a screenshot of the confirmation page?

Also, please post all pages of the notice to owner so that we can check for further errors.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2024, 09:26:03 am by cp8759 »
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Derbyshire CC, Code 01 Parking during prescribed hours, Bridge Street Long Eaton
« Reply #10 on: »
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Derbyshire CC, Code 01 Parking during prescribed hours, Bridge Street Long Eaton
« Reply #11 on: »
Sorry, I must’ve imagined I’d replied to an earlier post.

Can confirm that by ‘appeal’, I mean made representations. I did this online and made a note of the reference. There was no email confirmation that anything had been received on their end so I called and they confirmed they’d received it and that the fee was frozen whilst the representations process was happening.

See below the other pages from the Nto;
How to pay/how to make representations,
The specific grounds for making then and
The rule  relating to service.

The grounds I gave for ‘making representations’ was the procedural impropriety one.

Thanks for all your help btw.

Can see you’ve attached the traffic order, is there something in there I should be looking for? I found the reference to my street on page 48.

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Re: Derbyshire CC, Code 01 Parking during prescribed hours, Bridge Street Long Eaton
« Reply #12 on: »
@Staffam87 those images are far too small to read. There is limited upload space so please read the guidance here on how to upload images and then upload some decent sized photos / scans of the remaining pages.

My notes tell me Derbyshire County Council used to have a premium rate number on its paperwork (0845 520 2468) and that can win on the basis of Paul Bateman v Derbyshire County Council (DJ00037-2209, 10 November 2022), but we can't check as you've not uploaded the back of the PCN you did find, nor can we read the remaining pages of the notice to owner until you upload a better copy.

As for the traffic order, I'm waiting for the council to provide a copy of the digital map, but it's unlikely we'll get it back before the representations deadline, which is 1 May 2024. It doesn't really matter, I think we've got plenty to go on as it is.

Also please tag me when you reply so that I get an email notification.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Derbyshire CC, Code 01 Parking during prescribed hours, Bridge Street Long Eaton
« Reply #13 on: »
@Staffam87 well it turns out there might not be any legally valid maps for the traffic order, so that would make the case open and shut.

Have you made formal representations? You never replied to my message above and the deadline was two days ago?!?
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
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