Author Topic: Dart Charge PCNs  (Read 1181 times)

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Dart Charge PCNs
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I have received two PCNs (coming and going same day) for crossing the Dartford tunnel. Admittedly I forgot to pay the user charge by midnight the next day, however I made the payment on the third or fourth day for both ways, as soon as I remembered. A week later I received the PCNs in the post. There is no mention of the payment I made. Is there any way to challenge these PCNs?


« Last Edit: August 05, 2024, 01:04:13 pm by rizlagunner »

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Re: Dart Charge PCNs
« Reply #1 on: »
YOu might phone DART to explain that whilst didn't pay by the DART-imposed deadline, you paid a few days later, so did not rob DART of any income. See if they'll cancel. DART used to be quite forgiving, but is now under a newer, and what seems to be a more ruthless management, no doubt incentivised to get the money rolling in.

There is, however, if you're prepared to risk the full PCN penalty, a known flaw in many road user charge PCNs whereby the toll is added on to the PCN. This is unlawful, but they get away with it because nobody ever takes them to the Traffic Penalty Tribunal.  The case is Moran v Secretary of Transport IA1249-1803 13th June 2018, and maybe somewhere on this forum. The administrator will probably know. I have a link but it doesn't work. The relevant regulations are: -
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/1783/regulation/7/made

Re: Dart Charge PCNs
« Reply #2 on: »
Your VRM is on show if that matters to you 🤔


Re: Dart Charge PCNs
« Reply #4 on: »
Your VRM is on show if that matters to you 🤔

@dyslexicdog
Have you read
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/
?

I have.

With the information provided, anyone could create problems for the OP with the information that has been provided so my intention was to make OP aware so they could make their own decision on risk.

Overall, I’m here to learn and discuss.
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Re: Dart Charge PCNs
« Reply #5 on: »
YOu might phone DART to explain that whilst didn't pay by the DART-imposed deadline, you paid a few days later, so did not rob DART of any income. See if they'll cancel. DART used to be quite forgiving, but is now under a newer, and what seems to be a more ruthless management, no doubt incentivised to get the money rolling in.

There is, however, if you're prepared to risk the full PCN penalty, a known flaw in many road user charge PCNs whereby the toll is added on to the PCN. This is unlawful, but they get away with it because nobody ever takes them to the Traffic Penalty Tribunal.  The case is Moran v Secretary of Transport IA1249-1803 13th June 2018, and maybe somewhere on this forum. The administrator will probably know. I have a link but it doesn't work. The relevant regulations are: -
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/1783/regulation/7/made

So I've decided to be a risk taker and have appealed it. The text of my representation is as follows:

Dear Sir/Madam,

I am writing with regard to the two PCNs IO15347227 and IO15347271 issued on 19th July 2024. I wish to appeal on the basis that I made the payment on 15th July 2024, under transaction ID 1-526858804 as per payment receipt received by text, screenshot of which is attached as proof of payment.

It therefore follows that penalty and user charge fees are not due. I trust you will cancel the referenced PCNs.

Sincerely,


I will update this post on the outcome once received.


Re: Dart Charge PCNs
« Reply #6 on: »
OK, "risktaker", we will cheer you on !  Of course if the matter gets to adjudication, you will be able to quote the relevant case of 2018 back to them. The maximum you'd be risking is, of course, the full PCN penalties, there are no additional costs.
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Re: Dart Charge PCNs
« Reply #7 on: »
DART are permitted to recover the RUC, it says so in the Regs and is repeated in their Charging Order.

But neither the regs nor the order permit recovery as if it were a penalty.

IMO, a DART PCN sails close to the wind but does not, other than by implication, require the RUC to be paid. The reference to a CC omits any suggestion that the RUC is recoverable. However, as shown in another current thread the CC itself goes too far IMO by stating that if 'You do not pay' - without any qualification and which could only reasonably be interpreted as referring to Total to Pay which includes the RUC- then 'you will get a court order demanding payment'.

This thread has similarities. The PCN clearly separates the penalty from the RUC and it could be argued by them that this is simply a statement of what's owed i.e. the penalty as a penalty charge and the RUC generally as permitted under the order. Perhaps the OP could find out what is demanded on the authority's website payment page.

In the Caroline Sheppard decsion the authority at that time went so far as to defend its position but whether this remains the same today I don't know.

OP, have you actually sent your appeal? I ask because 'It therefore follows that penalty and user charge fees are not due. I trust you will cancel the referenced PCNs.' Is not a statement of the law as I understand it. The penalty is owing because you failed to pay the RUC in time. It is the RUC which in fairness cannot be owing because you paid it* prior to the PCN being issued.

*- does your receipt show clearly that your payments were in respect of specified crossings? We wouldn't know, we haven't seen them.

Re: Dart Charge PCNs
« Reply #8 on: »
Yes I have sent the appeal. It was largely based on a template posted by the admin in another thread. I opted to receive the receipt via text and it does not mention what crossing specifically, only that they have received £5.00 from me.

As for what is demanded, on the PCN payment page it is the total amount that is required to be paid.




« Last Edit: August 07, 2024, 09:18:00 am by rizlagunner »

Re: Dart Charge PCNs
« Reply #9 on: »

however I made the payment on the third or fourth day for both ways,

Day 6 actually!

Surely you didn't just get on to their website and handover 2*RUC?

Anyway, have you croseed since 9 July and did you pay? If not, then you should have a credit against your account/VRM. Perhaps you would check.

Other than this, there's nothing to do but wait for their response to your reps and, as asked by others, post exactly what you submitted.

Re: Dart Charge PCNs
« Reply #10 on: »
Basically as soon as I remembered, and as it turns out before they decided to issue the PCN. I have not made any other crossings since then. I have checked on the website and it shows they are holding this £5 as a credit on the account. The text I used is already posted above. The point is I did make the payment, albeit a few days late but life does get in the way. As I rarely use the crossing (probably the second time I have ever crossed) I did not have an auto deduction  account set up. Will post the response once I receive it.


Re: Dart Charge PCNs
« Reply #11 on: »
The second part of what you've posted dooms them IMO.

Select the PCN(s) you want to pay or challenge


Reference Number   Rime and date of crossing   PCN details   Total to pay

In each case the Total to pay is £37.50.

IMO it would take more than Clarence Darrow and Perry Mason combined to convince an adjudicator that the authority were not using the prescribed procedure for pursuing a penalty for the recovery of the RUC.

Re: Dart Charge PCNs
« Reply #12 on: »
Hi all,

I have received the Notice of Rejection from Dartford. Posting original PCNs as links have expired and the NoR for review, and any suggestions on how to appeal this.





« Last Edit: September 06, 2024, 12:12:41 pm by rizlagunner »

Re: Dart Charge PCNs
« Reply #13 on: »
Hi all, can anyone tell me if this case is worth progressing to appeal or am I definitely out of £75? As I read a case earlier where if you have paid the toll (even if late) they cannot collect the road user charge as part of the PCN or the notice of rejection.

Re: Dart Charge PCNs
« Reply #14 on: »
Your case is virtually identical to that of a case at the TPT in 2018, under Caroline Sheppard, the Chief Adjudicator at the time, no less !

Quote
Case Number : IA01249-1803
Appeal Date : 22/03/2018

Adjudicator's Reasons
Mr Moran paid the £3 crossing charge at 23:20 on 14 January 2018, which was a day later
that the time required for payment. However, on 19 January 2018 Dart Charge sent him a
penalty charge notice stating he should pay either £38 within 14 days or £73 within 28 days.
Mr Moran made representations saying he had paid the crossing charge and produced the
receipt for payment.

Dart Charge rejected the representations saying, “Our investigations show that whilst you did
make payment of the RUC in respect of the above contravention, this payment was not made
until after midnight on the day following your crossing.” They therefore accepted that the
crossing was paid, but they go on to say. “Your late payment(s) will be held as credit against
your vehicle for future crossing(s). You must now make payment for the full amount outstanding
in respect of the above mentioned PCN(s), including the original road user charge, as shown at
the bottom of this notice.”. The amount payable at the end of the Notice of Rejection is £73.

Regulations 7(3)(g) and (f) require the penalty charge notice to state:
(f) the amount of penalty charge that is payable if the penalty charge is paid in full—
(i) within 14 days of the day on which the penalty charge notice is served;
(ii) after the expiry of such 14 day period but within 28 days of the day on which the penalty charge notice is
served;
(iii) after the service of a charge certificate;
(g) the manner in which the penalty charge must be paid and the address to which payment of the penalty charge
must be sent.

The clear intention is to set out clearly the amount of the penalty charge to be paid, and give
equally clear instructions as to how to pay the relevant amount.
While the PCN in this case dealt with the amounts of the penalty charge, according to when
they would be paid, it also stipulated that:
“In addition to the penalty charge you must also pay the applicable road user charge of £3.”
And the PCN further required Mr Moran to pay £38 or £73 (the relevant penalty charge with
£3 added), without an option to pay just the penalty charge.

There is no power in Regulation 7 for the PCN to require the road user charge to be paid in
addition to the penalty charge. Nor is there a power for the charging authority to refuse to
allocate a payment made for a crossing to that crossing, and hold it, possibly indefinitely, for
future use.


It is not in dispute that Mr Moran had paid the £3 crossing charge, as evidenced by his receipt
dated 14 January 2018 for the £3 payment, and accepted by Dart Charge.

It is all very well to set out the amounts of the penalty charge, but the impact and effect of the
PCN is to demand an amount that is in excess of the penalty charge, and it implies that
payment of £38 or £73 is the only amount that will be accepted.
The requirement for Mr Moran to pay the crossing charge in addition to the penalty charge, on
both the PCN and NOR, when he had already paid it, amounts to a procedural impropriety on
the part of the charging authority (known as Dart Charge). That is a ground of appeal that
means that Mr Moran is not liable to pay the penalty charge. He did pay the crossing charge,
albeit a day late, so he is not liable to pay that again.
So, if you want a punt, register an appeal at the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, quote this adjudication on your appeal.  The legal principle of "identical circumstances should give identical outcomes" is a good one to also quote. Against this, is the oft-quoted statement that every adjudication stands on its own, but there is nothing to prevent previous cases being cited in support, and here, your circumstances are identical.