Free Traffic Legal Advice

Having now paid the bailiffs, the only avenue open to you is to submit an Out-of-Time Witness Statement.  See this Traffic Enforcement Centre for the relevant forms which can be downloaded.
https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/traffic-enforcement-centre-forms
The relevant forms are, as you will see, TE7 and TE9.
What goes in the "Reason(s)" box on the TE7 is particularly important, because you are submitting out-of-time. This means DART can oppose your OOT submission.
You haven't really told us enough yet about your case to allow us to offer useful advice.

However, reading your narrative, this is my understanding of what happened; please confirm or advise what I have misunderstood.

It seems that you or your husband drove over the DART crossing without paying the toll. Eventually, DART sent out the first of the statutory enforcement documents, the Penalty Charge Notice, having obtained a name and address from DVLA. This name and address was the previous keeper of the vehicle. All the subsequent statutory documents were also sent there, being: -

- Charge Certificate
- Order for Recovery

No response was received by DART to these documents. The PCN debt was registered at the Traffic Enforcement Centre, and bailiffs were instructed. The bailiffs then obtained a warrant against the previous owner, who then contacted yourselves about the matter.

So what seems to have occurred is you bought the car from the previous owner, but for some reason or other, no new V5 registration document was sent to you. As you know, sale of a vehicle cancels the VED on the date of the sale, and the new owner must retax the vehicle. So the question has to be - why did you not have a V5 for the vehicle ?
In addition to the above, why didn't the previous owner submit representations to DART that he was no longer the owner ?  It puzzles me that you paid the bailiffs, because responsibility for PCNs falls on the keeper of the vehicle, and it seems he was remiss in reponding to the statutory documents he received, not least submitting representations against the PCN.

So we really need to know more about why you had no V5 with your name and address.  Was this because DVLA had received notice of the sale, but had yet to issue the revised V5 ?

We really cannot advise on what to put on your OOT WS without knowing the full story, or even if this will be accepted, because you were not the recipient of the original PCN, and it appears no representations against it were made by the registered owner.

I am afraid that this situation is, to use a RN lower deck expression, a right Pot Mess.

Quote from: Incandescent on November 04, 2023, 12:52:33 am

Having now paid the bailiffs, the only avenue open to you is to submit an Out-of-Time Witness Statement.

I'm not sure that's correct, according to regulation 19 of The Road User Charging Schemes (Penalty Charges, Adjudication and Enforcement) (England) Regulations 2013 only the person against whom the order for recovery has been issued can file a witness statement, in this case the previous keeper.

As Vikikocel was not the person named on the order for recovery, they have not paid the bailiff in their own right, they have effectively paid as an agent of the old keeper, and only the old keeper can file a witness statement. The fact that Vikikocel has no agreement in place to be reimbursed by the old keeper means that the payment is, in effect, an unconditional gift to the old keeper as it is the old keeper's liability that has been extinguished.

It is therefore the old keeper who must make the OOT witness statement, so the first thing to do is to find out if they're open to doing this. If not, that's the end of the matter.

If they are on board with pursuing this then as Incandescent says, we need to find out the full story so that the OOT application can be drafted properly. You only get one shot at (at least without incurring further costs) it so you want to get it 100% spot on.

The case was so confusing, that although I mentioned submitting a Witness Statement, I did have doubts. You have now confirmed my doubts.  Until we know the full story, it's difficult to know how to respond. What seems clear, is that the registered keeper, (the previous owner ?), despite getting a series of statutory documents in his name, did absolutely nothing at all about them. I think Vikikocel needs to face up to the fact that her £400 is gone forever !

So, Vikikocel, please tell us the whole story.

I just thought I'd take a look at the V5C for one of my cars.

Section 12 tells what both parties must do when a vehicle is sold privately, (Section 9 is for transferring a vehicle to a trader, insurer, or dismantler).
The onus is on the vendor, as the current recorded keeper, to send off the new keeper details to the DVLA by sending off Sections 1-8 to the DVLA (incl new keeper details on section 6) and to fill in section 10, and hand it to the new keeper.

To validafe the transfer of keepers, the new keeper signs and dates in the "new keeper" box in Section 8 , the present keeper signs and dates in the "registered keeper" box.

All the new keeper has to do is keep the filled-in Section 10 until a new V5C arrives following the previous keeper having send of the relevant V5C sections.

So you can see that the person who sold you the car has totally failed both you and the DVLA. How was the VED (Road Tax),  paid for the vehicle after the sale ? Two years elapsed between sale and the DART contravention.

I understand how to buy and sell a car however my husband is not experienced and was buying private. In fact, I don't think the log book even required a signature. He had the green slip to hand in order to tax the car, he was not aware the rest of the log book was still in the car paperwork in his possession.

Yes the previous owner would definitely have received the original PCN however he does not have this to show me. Would a SAR request to DART in relation to the number plate be beneficial at all?

Sorry I replied directly to your comment and now I can't see it, so apologies if i am repeating myself?

The previous owner did tell dart charge he was not the registered keeper, should he have submitted something more formal in writing to them (I am not sure how he notified them only that the bailiff told me they were notified from him).

Additionally, can the old registered keeper argue the situation, considering it makes no difference who paid the fine, can he not do the out of time submission, or does the fact that he received the documentation and made no real effort to sort it out mean there is no recourse?