Author Topic: Dagenham - Contravention Code 30, parked too long  (Read 3620 times)

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Re: Dagenham - Contravention Code 30, parked too long
« Reply #30 on: »
I have skimmed through the thread. Apart from the procedural improprieties mentioned above by other experts, if you look carefully, the two lists of grounds do not exactly agree with each other!  CEO is mentioned in the latter, for example. This is very sloppy.  But also nasty stuff pertaining to their whole pursuit of this case.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2024, 05:03:51 pm by Hippocrates »
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r

IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r

Re: Dagenham - Contravention Code 30, parked too long
« Reply #32 on: »
Barking has 'form' for this. See -

https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/barking-and-dagenham-53j-entering-a-pedestrian-zone-spurling-road-(dagenham)/msg11462/#msg11462

Indeed.  Serendipity.  Thanks for reminding me. Naughty naughty!


That thread seems to have ground to a silent halt, but not before CP pointed out:

Quote
Note that this is not a parking case, so unlike the other thread, this letter does not amount to a procedural impropriety. . . .
There is no law that says they can't send that letter, not under the 2003 Act at least.

Re: Dagenham - Contravention Code 30, parked too long
« Reply #33 on: »
Well there are two or three issues here:

1) The signage / TMO discrepancy,
2) The virtual blue badge,
3) The unlawful letter.

@Pastmybest you said you were minded to draft a representation, maybe if you want to write something to cover the blue badge point, I can write something for the other points?
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Re: Dagenham - Contravention Code 30, parked too long
« Reply #34 on: »
I can do that

Re: Dagenham - Contravention Code 30, parked too long
« Reply #35 on: »
I can try write something but wouldn't be sure what to say about the illegal letter.

Re: Dagenham - Contravention Code 30, parked too long
« Reply #36 on: »
Any suggestions? I have to submit something by Monday.

Re: Dagenham - Contravention Code 30, parked too long
« Reply #37 on: »
Any suggestions? I have to submit something by Monday.

George just one question and i will draft a representation today.

Your wife is the BB holder, who is the registered keeper of the car? Was she in the car when it was parked or was it parked to collect her?
« Last Edit: February 23, 2024, 12:59:41 pm by Pastmybest »

Re: Dagenham - Contravention Code 30, parked too long
« Reply #38 on: »
..and

'a virtual blue badge meaning we can park in bays where we would normally display a BB but don't have to in the borough.' is not correct, rather:

You can apply for a virtual courtesy Blue Badge if you hold a Blue Badge and live in a Controlled Parking Zone.

The courtesy Blue Badge will be linked to your Blue Badge and your nominated vehicle and will only be valid for parking in the Controlled Parking Zone you live in.


So, only for your zone which frankly seems a waste of time, but hey-ho!

Anyway, IMO the substantive issues on which (having reviewed the thread there are implications but no clear statements) this rests are:

Was a normal BB displayed;
Does the OP or their wife hold a courtesy(albeit virtual) BB;
If so, to what specific vehicle is it linked;
Is this the same vehicle as was issued with the PCN;
Perhaps the acid test as raised by others, does the mere fact that a CBB is held and which allows parking for a nominated vehicle in the specified CPZ allow the driver to presume its display when parked in other bays which would permit unlimited* parking were a BB to be displayed even when not parked in that CPZ?

*-it has to be unlimited because a VBB without a clock doesn't meet the BB requirements.

OP, pl answer 1-4 above, 5 is for discussion I would suggest.

And as regards the NTO, see page 1, last para:

..'if the penalty charge is not paid in full OR representations are not made within the [28-day period]...!

My emphasis. Where did OR come from, the regs specify:
g)that if, after the payment period has expired, no representations have been made under regulation 5 of the 2022 Appeals Regulations and the penalty charge has not been paid, the enforcement authority may increase the penalty charge by the applicable surcharge,..l

It's AND not OR. IMO OR conveys the wrong meaning.

« Last Edit: February 23, 2024, 01:17:44 pm by H C Andersen »

Re: Dagenham - Contravention Code 30, parked too long
« Reply #39 on: »
Any suggestions? I have to submit something by Monday.
Your wife is the BB holder, who is the registered keeper of the car? Was she in the car when it was parked or was it parked to collect her?

It is a motability car in her name. Yes we were travelling together.

Was a normal BB displayed;
Does the OP or their wife hold a courtesy(albeit virtual) BB;
If so, to what specific vehicle is it linked;
Is this the same vehicle as was issued with the PCN;
Perhaps the acid test as raised by others, does the mere fact that a CBB is held and which allows parking for a nominated vehicle in the specified CPZ allow the driver to presume its display when parked in other bays which would permit unlimited* parking were a BB to be displayed even when not parked in that CPZ?

*-it has to be unlimited because a VBB without a clock doesn't meet the BB requirements.

OP, pl answer 1-4 above, 5 is for discussion I would suggest.

1. A normal BB was not displayed
2. She does
3. It is linked to the car in question, we've checked this
4. Yes

I've gone through the thread again as it's been a while and there's a lot of good info there including my rejection for my initial challenge in which the council said a blue badge would not be exempt (so not challenging on the virtual BB but any BB)

Re: Dagenham - Contravention Code 30, parked too long
« Reply #40 on: »
It's late now but you will have a representation by tomorrow afternoon.
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Re: Dagenham - Contravention Code 30, parked too long
« Reply #41 on: »
George see below

Representations against the imposition and continued enforcement of PCN BZ61307630

I make representations against the above mentioned PCN under the statutory ground that. 
The contravention did not occur.
The vehicle in question VRM EN 72 WYS is a Motability vehicle leased to me/ my wife I/she holds a valid Blue Badge giving the exemptions available under regulation 7 of the Local Authorities' Traffic Orders (Exemptions for Disabled Persons) (England) Regulations 2000

I/my wife also holds a permit issued by Barking and Dagenham council exempting the display of the Blue badge. This exemption permit is valid within the HW zone. Heathway in Dagenham is squarely within the HW zone and as such the Exemption afforded by the above regulation allows parking without time limit, the exemption from display of the BB permit affords just such exemption from the display of the BB and as a consequence the contravention did not occur and the PCN should now be cancelled


Include a copy of the BB and permit adjust to suite re you or your wife making the reps and send as is unless CP adds something re the errors ( for myself I would leave them until appeal)
If you are making reps on behalf of your wife then you will need written authority from her in order to do so


don't send the bit in red

Re: Dagenham - Contravention Code 30, parked too long
« Reply #42 on: »
Thank you, I've submitted the challenge, will update when I hear back
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Re: Dagenham - Contravention Code 30, parked too long
« Reply #43 on: »
They have rejected my appeal.

I did not save my appeal but I copied what pastmybest gave and also added a bit about the bay markings with many images attached.

They only address this point by saying "other points in mitigation do not justify cancellation of the PCN".

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Re: Dagenham - Contravention Code 30, parked too long
« Reply #44 on: »
Idiots is it your intention to appeal if so i am happy to represent you by telephone free of charge.If you want to take me up on this send me a PM with your email address and i will communicate that way Also do not send anything to the council or tribunal I will deal with that