3. PCN Code 53 - Entering a pedestrian zone - Brent London
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Re: PCN Code 53 - Entering a pedestrian zone - Brent London
« Reply #15 on: »
Replace "attached please find the photographic evidence" with "please see the photographic evidence at LINK" and don't attach anything.

I will PM you a link to put in the representation, it will redirect to https://imgur.com/a/X0VqAOt but if you give them the link I'll PM you, we can use the click count to confirm whether they've looked at it or not (obviously do not click on that link yourself as we want the click count to remain at zero). If they don't click on it, we can then prove they've failed to consider all of the evidence. If they say in the rejection that they've considered all the evidence, we've got them for lying as well.

I would omit the 3rd point, as the clocks changed months ago, so much so that it's now not long until they change back.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: PCN Code 53 - Entering a pedestrian zone - Brent London
« Reply #16 on: »
Quote from: cp8759 on October 07, 2023, 05:47:26 pm
Replace "attached please find the photographic evidence" with "please see the photographic evidence at LINK" and don't attach anything.

I will PM you a link to put in the representation, it will redirect to https://imgur.com/a/X0VqAOt but if you give them the link I'll PM you, we can use the click count to confirm whether they've looked at it or not (obviously do not click on that link yourself as we want the click count to remain at zero). If they don't click on it, we can then prove they've failed to consider all of the evidence. If they say in the rejection that they've considered all the evidence, we've got them for lying as well.

I would omit the 3rd point, as the clocks changed months ago, so much so that it's now not long until they change back.


I just PMed you to try to confirm the last thing. Please read the message there.
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Re: PCN Code 53 - Entering a pedestrian zone - Brent London
« Reply #17 on: »
Just making a note that jacoblo has submitted representations for this one.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: PCN Code 53 - Entering a pedestrian zone - Brent London
« Reply #18 on: »
Hi @everyone,

I received a rejection regarding my appeal to the PCN.

Please find the attached rejection letter.

The officer did provide a screencap but I could never see the warning sign because I never passed through there. Please find his screencap here on Google Maps: https://maps.app.goo.gl/jhaem3swsQQ6hKaf9  The warning sign is on Old Kenton Lane but I was driving on Slough Lane from Salmon Street. Please also find my screencap from Google Maps. The black x is where the warning sign is posted. The red x is where the prohibited area sign is posted and I was driving northbound. Therefore, I could never see the warning sign.

Also to @cp8759, could you please check the link you sent me about the evidence to see whether they have clicked or not?

Please suggest if I should pay the PCN to end the case or continue to appeal to the adjudicator (as they did not request additional information from me).

Many thanks!

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« Last Edit: October 30, 2023, 05:52:47 pm by jacoblo »
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Re: PCN Code 53 - Entering a pedestrian zone - Brent London
« Reply #19 on: »
Also attached are the guidance note and appeal form to the Environment & Traffic Adjudicator for your reference.



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Re: PCN Code 53 - Entering a pedestrian zone - Brent London
« Reply #20 on: »
They have not accessed the link you provided, so arguably they have failed to consider the supporting evidence.

I cannot tell you that you should or shouldn't appeal as this is a finely balanced case: we see plenty of appeals where Brent messes up, but we cannot guarantee the outcome. However if you wish to carry on I'm happy to represent you, but it has to be your decision.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: PCN Code 53 - Entering a pedestrian zone - Brent London
« Reply #21 on: »
Quote from: cp8759 on October 30, 2023, 05:50:23 pm
They have not accessed the link you provided, so arguably they have failed to consider the supporting evidence.

I cannot tell you that you should or shouldn't appeal as this is a finely balanced case: we see plenty of appeals where Brent messes up, but we cannot guarantee the outcome. However if you wish to carry on I'm happy to represent you, but it has to be your decision.

@cp8759, Do you think these two valid arguments
1. They did not consider all the evidence, as they did not click the link
2. There is no warning sign, the one they provided I did not pass through as illustrated in previous post
will be more likely to succeed to overthrow the decision and cancel the PCN?
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Re: PCN Code 53 - Entering a pedestrian zone - Brent London
« Reply #22 on: »
If this was me i would be biting CP's hand of to take the offer to represent you feeling I have a far better than 50/50 chance

Then I would start saving the cost of a cup of coffee every week. I on the off chance i lost i would have saved the difference, but truth be told i would expect to have an extra £130 for xmas

This would of course require stetching the allowed time to the limit
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Re: PCN Code 53 - Entering a pedestrian zone - Brent London
« Reply #23 on: »
Jacoblo I would not offer to represent you if I didn't think you had a better than even chance of winning (nobody wants to take on a lost cause). Maybe not by a huge margin, but still I think you have a slightly better than even chance.

Quote from: Pastmybest on October 30, 2023, 06:24:19 pm
This would of course require stetching the allowed time to the limit
If I push the time allowed to the limit, I can get the case heard in late January meaning the deadline to pay would be late February, so you have 4 months, meaning you only need to set aside £3.82 a week to make up the extra £65, which as Pastmybest says you might well end up keeping for yourself anyway.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: PCN Code 53 - Entering a pedestrian zone - Brent London
« Reply #24 on: »
@cp8759
If you represent me to appeal, what grounds of appeal would you use? From the appeal form they categorise into five reasons, but I don’t see any of one applies to me.
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Re: PCN Code 53 - Entering a pedestrian zone - Brent London
« Reply #25 on: »
I'd bring a collateral challenge under the ground that the amount demanded exceeds the amount due in the circumstances of the case, adjudicator Jack Walsh explains this in Adam Jones v London Borough of Havering (2190374806, 09 October 2019).
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: PCN Code 53 - Entering a pedestrian zone - Brent London
« Reply #26 on: »
Quote from: cp8759 on October 30, 2023, 10:23:21 pm
I'd bring a collateral challenge under the ground that the amount demanded exceeds the amount due in the circumstances of the case, adjudicator Jack Walsh explains this in Adam Jones v London Borough of Havering (2190374806, 09 October 2019).

@cp8759
I have just found that in the rejection letter the fourth paragraph, they are describing the prohibited zone - Old Kenton Lane JW Sunningdale Gardens, which is irrelevant to this contravention - Slough Lane JW Lewgars Avenue. Would it be a valid point to appeal as well?

Also, as they did not click the link, they failed to consider all the supporting evidence from my representation. Is that a solid ground?

Furthermore, is it legally required to have advanced warning sign for this restriction - entering the pedestrian and cyclist zone with restriction zone time?

If you had to give a percentage, what do you think of its successful rate.
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Re: PCN Code 53 - Entering a pedestrian zone - Brent London
« Reply #27 on: »
Quote from: jacoblo on October 30, 2023, 11:21:03 pm
I have just found that in the rejection letter the fourth paragraph, they are describing the prohibited zone - Old Kenton Lane JW Sunningdale Gardens, which is irrelevant to this contravention - Slough Lane JW Lewgars Avenue. Would it be a valid point to appeal as well?
Why would it be?

Quote from: jacoblo on October 30, 2023, 11:21:03 pm
Also, as they did not click the link, they failed to consider all the supporting evidence from my representation. Is that a solid ground?
Only up to a point, as they've put the same picture in your notice of rejection.

Quote from: jacoblo on October 30, 2023, 11:21:03 pm
Furthermore, is it legally required to have advanced warning sign for this restriction - entering the pedestrian and cyclist zone with restriction zone time?
Not really, but the absence of adequate warning signs can make the restriction enforceable. That being said, you headed for the restriction head-on, so there's not much of a case that an AWS was needed.

Quote from: jacoblo on October 30, 2023, 11:21:03 pm
If you had to give a percentage, what do you think of its successful rate.
I'd say something between 55% and 65%.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: PCN Code 53 - Entering a pedestrian zone - Brent London
« Reply #28 on: »
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
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