Author Topic: Croydon x 8 PCNS! - 53j - School Street (Pedestrian Zone)  (Read 1637 times)

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Croydon x 8 PCNS! - 53j - School Street (Pedestrian Zone)
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Hello!

It has been a while (from the old forum)

This is a bit of a long one... given there is 8x PCN

The car is leased, hence there was a delay in actually knowing the contravention.
Route used for daily school run, and the residence is in a perpendicular road to the where the current restrictions are.

Dates of contravention:
1. 20/11/2023
2. 21/11/2023
3. 23/11/2023
4. 24/11/2023
5. 29/11/2023
6. 01/12/2023 - AM
7. 01/12/2023 - PM
8. 08/12/2023

No one knew of any of the contraventions, until the first email from the leasing company (Alphabet) stating there are PCNs (they batched them together to send on the to the lessor).
Notice of first contravention from leasing company - 08/12/2023

For contraventions 1 - 4, no PCN to date has been received to date, despite being the earlier PCNs. just a notice of rejection of the appeal and a discounted rate.
PCNs 5 - 8 have been received. Snippet below.

Appeals were made against them all (except #1. as there was no way to the first one appeal it on site for some reason).
Appeals were made using letter of authorisation from the leasing company.












Appeal made for PCNs 2 -8

I appeal the above PCNs on the basis of the following reasons.

That the penalty charge exceeded the amount applicable in the circumstances of the case.


I am a resident within the school street, and I received no notice at all in regard to the restriction being in place. Moreover, being a resident in the school street area means I am exempt from such restriction.
The following is evidenced in Croydon’s website
 
Source: https://www.croydon.gov.uk/healthy-school-streets/how-healthy-school-streets-work

Furthermore, there was no advanced warning sign except when a driver passes the junction, and it too late. Again, it is state on the Croydon site the following:
 
Source: https://www.croydon.gov.uk/healthy-school-streets/how-healthy-school-streets-work
There is absolutely no opportunity to take an alternative route once the driver has entered into junction.
Furthermore, this route has been taken by me on weekday morning school runs and even leading up to the enforcement of the healthy school street scheme, there was never any indication any restriction was going to take place.
There is no advance warning sign when turning into Stroud Green Way from Long Lane, then continuing right onto Stroud Green Way.
Finally, in regard to this point, the **** of such signage, along with the restrictions were not conveyed to the residents whom live within the restricted school area.

Continuing Contravention
The above PCNs were sent sequentially, however I was not aware of the initial PCN CR18780944. Thus it would be deemed disproportionate to punish multiple times, as the driver was not aware.
I would like to draw your attention to the following case:
2160273606
The appellant does not deny the contravention but states that he was travelling to Highgate hospital and was a stranger to the area and made the same mistake twice in one day as a consequence of which he received two PCN's
I am satisfied form the evidence that the contravention did occur. However I also find that as the there is a time lag in issuing a PCN by post, a motorist can unwittingly continue to make the same mistake until they receive notification of the PCN and in these circumstances I find the second PCN issued to be a continuing contravention and allow the appeal in relation to the second PCN under case number 2160273606 but refuse the first PCN issued under case number 2160273661

Proof of Residence + Letter of Authorisation

Please find attached Council Tax Notice showing proof the residency. Furthermore, please also find attached the Letter of Authorisation from our car financer, Alphabet, which allows me to appeal the PCN directly to Croydon.

In light of the aforementioned, I ask you cancel the PCNs as I am a resident of the area, and therefore a valid exemption applies to me. Also, I was not aware of any subsequent PCNs thus also ask for these to cancelled.

Thank you,
Best wishes,


Should add now that the exemption does not apply to the residence, despite it being a stones throw away from the restriction.

Also, there is no advance warning except the below signage, which just before the giveaway line on the junction, before the restrictions start



Any advice? Thanks in advance!
« Last Edit: January 21, 2024, 04:24:09 pm by theeagleman »

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Re: Croydon x 8 PCNS! - 53j - School Street (Pedestrian Zone)
« Reply #1 on: »
@theeagleman show us the authorisation letter from Alphabet.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Re: Croydon x 8 PCNS! - 53j - School Street (Pedestrian Zone)
« Reply #2 on: »
Should add, mistaken in regards to the appeal saying the company gave letter of authorisation to appeal.  :-\
They gave Croydon that letter, so they can issue a fresh PCN.

I only attach #1 below, to not clutter, but they all follow the same format.



Re: Croydon x 8 PCNS! - 53j - School Street (Pedestrian Zone)
« Reply #3 on: »
Anyone have any further thoughts on this   :o

Thanks in advance

Re: Croydon x 8 PCNS! - 53j - School Street (Pedestrian Zone)
« Reply #4 on: »

Dates of contravention:
1. 20/11/2023










A Charge Certificate has now been issued for this one... despite not receiving any PCN...

Re: Croydon x 8 PCNS! - 53j - School Street (Pedestrian Zone)
« Reply #5 on: »

OP, pl answer the following:
What PCNs have you received from the council in your name?
To whom is the Charge Certificate addressed.
To whom are the council's responses addressed?

That's it.

Re: Croydon x 8 PCNS! - 53j - School Street (Pedestrian Zone)
« Reply #6 on: »
Hi HCA,

- PCNS have been received for ONLY the below

5. 29/11/2023
6. 01/12/2023 - AM
7. 01/12/2023 - PM
8. 08/12/2023


- The charge certificate is addressed to lessor i.e. my partner

- The council responses have been addressed to also the lessor i.e. my partner


Re: Croydon x 8 PCNS! - 53j - School Street (Pedestrian Zone)
« Reply #7 on: »
Re: PCNs: CR18869039, CR18892314, CR18892176, CR18958503 

I appeal the above PCNs on the basis of the following reasons.

That the penalty charge exceeded the amount applicable in the circumstances of the case.
I am a resident within the school street, and I received no notice at all in regard to the restriction being in place. 
Furthermore, there was no advanced warning sign except when a driver passes the junction, and it too late. Again, it is state on the Croydon site the following:
There is absolutely no opportunity to take an alternative route once the driver has entered into junction.
Furthermore, this route has been taken by me on weekday morning school runs and even leading up to the enforcement of the healthy school street scheme, there was never any indication any restriction was going to take place.
There is no advance warning sign when turning into Stroud Green Way from Long Lane, then continuing right onto Stroud Green Way.
Please see signage and this is the ONLY one, so there is no advanced warning beforehand.
Finally, in regard to this point, the **** of such signage, along with the restrictions were not conveyed to the residents whom live within the restricted school area.

The signage is at the Junction of the contravention, there is NO earlier warning on Stroud Green Way as vehicles enter from Long Lane. Furthermore, this is very recent restriction, considering I have been using this route for the past 6 years.
Continuing Contravention
The above PCNs were sent sequentially, however I was not aware of the initial PCN. Thus it would be deemed disproportionate to punish multiple times, as the driver was not aware.

I would like to draw the councils attention to the following case:
2160273606
The appellant does not deny the contravention but states that he was travelling to Highgate hospital and was a stranger to the area and made the same mistake twice in one day as a consequence of which he received two PCN's
I am satisfied form the evidence that the contravention did occur. However I also find that as the there is a time lag in issuing a PCN by post, a motorist can unwittingly continue to make the same mistake until they receive notification of the PCN and in these circumstances I find the second PCN issued to be a continuing contravention and allow the appeal in relation to the second PCN under case number 2160273606 but refuse the first PCN issued under case number 2160273661
I would also like to draw attention to the following case

2170368185
The appellant told me when attending on 14 September explained that it was dark when he had mistakenly parked in a business bay near to where he lived. He said that he was concentrating on the zone letter and omitted focussing on the crucial word "business" element in the signage.
I understood that he had been issued with nine penalty charge notices. The explanation for the repetition was absence on business abroad,
The appellant told me that of the nine he had paid one and paid this at the discounted rate.
Administrative cancellations had resulted in there being now only three penalty charges outstanding and it was these that were under appeal to me.
The appellant has effectively accepted responsibility for the mistake he made.
The issues which have the focus of the Tribunal are those of quantum and the appellant argument that the contravention should be regarded as a "continuing offence" for which only a single penalty charge can legitimately be sought.
I mentioned during the course of the hearing that the "continuing offence" argument might be taken as failing as there were times in the day when the public at large could lawfully park in the bay.
More importantly I indicated that daily penalty charges were generally seen as legally unobjectionable in this Tribunal although adjudicators could on occasion be persuaded in their discretion that a single penalty charge alone was appropriate on account of there being but a "single driver mistake".
I decided against ruling for cancellation on the basis of "continuing offence" arguments presented.
I was more impressed by appellant arguments about the quantum of the combined penalty charges sought being excessive.
A starting benchmark is the regard I have for the financial consequences of impounding had the Council proceeded down that route as opposed to successive daily penalty charges.
Impounding would have cost £265 without daily storage charges. Some or all of daily storage charges are frequently waived where there is genuine explanation of absence abroad. This Tribunal regularly sees that as reasonable.
The Council has not persuaded me that there is sufficient justification for a further payment as high as £390.
The factors I have described have resulted in me upholding only the first and last of the three penalty charges under appeal.
The consequence is that the appellant must now pay £260 within 28 days to avoid further escalation.

In total, there are 8 PCNs and it is grossly and disproportionately to pay them all, when I was not even aware of the first one.

Thank you,
Best wishes,


They sent the 4 PCNs, but no way to make an appeal, as they took the appeal on the first basis.

The above should be emailed in this case?

Also, they have provided no tribunal referral code on any of them.

Re: Croydon x 8 PCNS! - 53j - School Street (Pedestrian Zone)
« Reply #8 on: »
@theeagleman this is all incredibly confusing and we want to put our energy into devising an appeal strategy rather than unpicking what document is what.

Please make a google driver or dropbox folder, and create two subfolders: one named "lessor" and one named "alphabet".

In each subfolder, make one subfolder for each PCN (use the PCN number as the folder name), and dump all the documents for each PCN into the corresponding PCN subfolder.

This way we can easily work out what stage each PCN is at and who is responsible for it.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Re: Croydon x 8 PCNS! - 53j - School Street (Pedestrian Zone)
« Reply #9 on: »
I appreciate that it is indeed confusing.

I will sort this out over the weekend as suggested.

Thanks
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Re: Croydon x 8 PCNS! - 53j - School Street (Pedestrian Zone)
« Reply #10 on: »
Hello,

I have received a PCN for the same location this week and am struggling to get my head around it.

May I ask the outcome of yours?

Thanks!

Re: Croydon x 8 PCNS! - 53j - School Street (Pedestrian Zone)
« Reply #11 on: »
Hello,

I have received a PCN for the same location this week and am struggling to get my head around it.

May I ask the outcome of yours?

Thanks!
Please start your own thread, it's always a bad idea to piggy back somebody else's.

Please have a read of the Read This First - sticky post at the top of the forum.

Then post up all sides of all documents that you have concerning your case. It's only necessary to redact your name and address where present. Please leave everything else visible. In particular the PCN number, vehicle reg, any dates, times and locations and all other Council information.