Author Topic: Croydon 53J - Green Lane and Kensington Ave - entering a pedestrian zone  (Read 424 times)

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Greetings all and shout out to FTLA! I find myself in a bit of a pickle with a PCN (53J) that I was quite shocked to receive honestly. The signage wasn’t noticeable from my vantage point and there was a bus passing at the time of ‘entering a pedestrian zone’. They have tried to cheekily remove that context in the video evidence but the sharp eyed will notice the placement of the signs and how it is virtually impossible to see (let alone read) them when leaving a main road (30mph limit) with oncoming traffic to be mindful of in order to safely turn right. The signs (2) are placed 1, far behind where you would explicitly notice it with the vehicle oriented for a right turn and the other No.2 is oriented towards oncoming traffic making it highly improbable to pick up on the fly.

I genuinely was unaware of the restrictions, following sat nav in order to connect to Norbury Avenue in an emergency. I have read other similar croydon related posts and I have taken the necessary street level screenshots, video and what have you, they are in this dropbox folder
-> https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/0o67g8y6fe2z0lgkbyagb/AGA70n7x7bJ3s7GyESEgJuA?rlkey=nq6jehw2ss6tvn71mdaexkn04&dl=0

Please help as I would rather avoid a £80 fine (discounted from £160) for something that has the feeling of being set up to fail. It was my first time visiting this area. The appeal window is closing and I would greatly appreciate your strategic approach over my 'hope they have a heart appeal'
« Last Edit: June 29, 2025, 01:38:24 pm by Death2Fines »

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If you can prove that this sign here that warns about not entering the street is obstructed by the tree then I think you have chance. If I was you I would go and take some pictures of this sign as it is today. Googlemaps was taken in April 2025 and maybe now the the tree obstructs the visibility of the sign even more. Signs must be unobstucted.
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Quote
following sat nav
We do see this rather too often, I'm afraid. Satnavs are never up-to-date, and London councils keep putting in these restrictions. It can be rather difficult determining if the signage is adequate.  Councils have a duty under Regulation 18 of The Local Authorities’ Traffic Orders (Procedure) (England and Wales) Regulations 1996, to erect 'adequate' signage giving notice of the restrictions imposed by a traffic order.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1996/2489/contents

So, here is the advance sign for the restriction: -
https://maps.app.goo.gl/zweaiCyeSJgNXqBr8
and here are the restriction signs themselves: -
https://maps.app.goo.gl/49DFwCDFVC3BEXZv9

However the sign on the RH side is directly opposite the traffic island so unlikely come to the driver's attention, especially if the advance sign was missed. What the driver sees when actually turning is this: -
https://maps.app.goo.gl/Pnasw9iATVBc8YWT6

So it is quite clear to me that the signage is not adequate, but you have to convince an adjudicator, as the council will never give way. The video doesn't show the main road traffic at all, really, being mounted well into Kensington Avenue with a very limited view.It does show a but

If you can prove that this sign here that warns about not entering the street is obstructed by the tree then I think you have chance. If I was you I would go and take some pictures of this sign as it is today. Googlemaps was taken in April 2025 and maybe now the the tree obstructs the visibility of the sign even more. Signs must be unobstucted.

That part of the road isn’t where the turn occurred. Parked cars on both sides and a 30mph limit you’re not really going to see that depending on what side you’re on. Also the evidence they are relying on is the video which doesn’t even show the signs. I will go and check the location on foot though thanks for the advice…

Quote
following sat nav
We do see this rather too often, I'm afraid. Satnavs are never up-to-date, and London councils keep putting in these restrictions. It can be rather difficult determining if the signage is adequate.  Councils have a duty under Regulation 18 of The Local Authorities’ Traffic Orders (Procedure) (England and Wales) Regulations 1996, to erect 'adequate' signage giving notice of the restrictions imposed by a traffic order.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1996/2489/contents

So, here is the advance sign for the restriction: -
https://maps.app.goo.gl/zweaiCyeSJgNXqBr8
and here are the restriction signs themselves: -
https://maps.app.goo.gl/49DFwCDFVC3BEXZv9

However the sign on the RH side is directly opposite the traffic island so unlikely come to the driver's attention, especially if the advance sign was missed. What the driver sees when actually turning is this: -
https://maps.app.goo.gl/Pnasw9iATVBc8YWT6

So it is quite clear to me that the signage is not adequate, but you have to convince an adjudicator, as the council will never give way. The video doesn't show the main road traffic at all, really, being mounted well into Kensington Avenue with a very limited view.It does show a but

Yes absolutely! I get it now. The sign on the left where the church is can be easily obscured by parked vehicles. You also caught the two signs and the driver perspective which is also what I described. What would I say in an appeal and how likely is it to succeed if the council say no by default? I just want to be sure I represent what was honestly a situation that better signage and not turning when a bus was literally going past would’ve likely solved...

Don't just pay up, submit representations based on what has been discussed here, but don't expect the council to cancel the PCN. The dark heart of the decrminalised legislation is that it gave councils a Magic Money Tree, especially in big cities like London. All they do is reject virtually ALL representations, because they know that most people, (>95%) then just pay-up.

It all comes down to your attitude to risk. This is what the Earl of Montrose wrote: -

"He either fears his fate too much
Or his deserts are small
Who fears to put it to the touch
To win, or lose it all"

Unfortunately the Earl lost his head, but that doesn't happen at London Tribunals.