3. Croydon - (01) Parked on Restricted St during prescribed hours
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Croydon - (01) Parked on Restricted St during prescribed hours
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Hi,

I need to know if I can challenge this PCN. I went to pick up a friend, knocked at door, went in for a quick trip to toilet, came out to a neighbour at door to warn me and ticket being placed on my car.

The thing is the ticket only states me as being observed for 1 minute. I am sure it has to be longer than that but maybe I am wrong? Any help much appreciated.

Details as follows:

Picture of Front of ticket:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/200374271@N05/53628495982/in/dateposted-public/


Back of ticket:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/200374271@N05/53629834980/in/dateposted-public/

Sign:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/200374271@N05/53629729674/in/dateposted-public/

Spot where parked on single yellow - 15ft from sign
https://www.flickr.com/photos/200374271@N05/53629729669/in/dateposted-public/

Streetview link:

https://maps.app.goo.gl/bDFAFbyKvRmSzwhd7

Many Thanks
Chris
« Last Edit: April 04, 2024, 11:20:11 pm by cp8759 »
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Re: Croydon - (01) Parked on Restricted St during prescribed hours
« Reply #1 on: »
There is no legally mandated observation time. If you park on a yellow line, you are under a duty to check the restrictions, and here there is a sign close by.
However, even though a contravention may be clearly made out, that doesn't mean "ching" for them, so wait a bit to see what the others say.
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Re: Croydon - (01) Parked on Restricted St during prescribed hours
« Reply #2 on: »
The CEO's photos do not show a prima-facie contravention:









Are you the registered keeper and do you have the V5C?

A short observation period simply increases the risk that a PCN might be wrongly issued because the driver was engaged in some exempt activity out of sight of the CEO, if there was no exempt activity a short observation period does not invalidate the PCN.

There are two angles that can be pursued: the strategy of last resort described here, and waiting till the tribunal to put the authority to proof (if they turn up with only those four photos, they cannot prove their case as there's no evidence of any signage as long as you don't do anything draft like providing a photo of the sign yourself).
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Croydon - (01) Parked on Restricted St during prescribed hours
« Reply #3 on: »
Thank you.

As regards the photos, the 2nd one does show a sign on the other side of the road, which is teh same as teh one on teh side I parked. Would/Could they not just zoom in on that as evidence?

I am the registered keeper and hold the V5. Are you just asking to check that it would be me that the correspondence would be served upon?

I guess loading of luggage doesn't count as "loading" in the context of parking regs? I could have been loading/unloading something else.

Thanks again for your help.

Chris
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Re: Croydon - (01) Parked on Restricted St during prescribed hours
« Reply #4 on: »
Sorry for those youngsters who may not know what "ching" means.  The old mechanical tills, (sometimes called 'registers' were described as "ringing up" the amount to be paid.  This was done by bells inside the machine that gave the noise "ching" when the operator pressed the buttons for the cash amount. The till drawer then opened.



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Re: Croydon - (01) Parked on Restricted St during prescribed hours
« Reply #5 on: »
Quote from: lemonpie on April 05, 2024, 10:54:54 am
As regards the photos, the 2nd one does show a sign on the other side of the road, which is teh same as teh one on teh side I parked. Would/Could they not just zoom in on that as evidence?
Signs on the other side of the road don't count, and if you zoom in, this is all you get:



It's not like in the movies where they can "enhance" the image.

Quote from: lemonpie on April 05, 2024, 10:54:54 am
I guess loading of luggage doesn't count as "loading" in the context of parking regs? I could have been loading/unloading something else.
Were you loading luggage?
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Croydon - (01) Parked on Restricted St during prescribed hours
« Reply #6 on: »
Quote from: cp8759 on April 06, 2024, 12:38:19 am
Were you loading luggage?

Yes, in as much as I was picking up my girlfriend for a weekend away and will have carried her (usually excessive!) bags to the car. I have evidence of a booking at a hotel.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2024, 11:49:07 pm by cp8759 »
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Re: Croydon - (01) Parked on Restricted St during prescribed hours
« Reply #7 on: »
Quote from: lemonpie on April 08, 2024, 12:01:35 pm
Yes, in as much as I was picking up my girlfriend for a weekend away and will have carried her (usually excessive!) bags to the car. I have evidence of a booking at a hotel.
How many bags, and how long did it take to load them?

Where the bags ready to be loaded when you got there?

Did the civil enforcement officer see you come out of the house, or did you see him?
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Croydon - (01) Parked on Restricted St during prescribed hours
« Reply #8 on: »
Quote from: cp8759 on April 08, 2024, 10:13:46 pm
Quote from: lemonpie on April 08, 2024, 12:01:35 pm
Yes, in as much as I was picking up my girlfriend for a weekend away and will have carried her (usually excessive!) bags to the car. I have evidence of a booking at a hotel.
How many bags, and how long did it take to load them?

Where the bags ready to be loaded when you got there?

Did the civil enforcement officer see you come out of the house, or did you see him?


Bags loaded after enforcement officer left - there was no hurry once I had a ticket!

She was zipping them up, whilst I went to the boy's room.

Neighbour knocked at door and I come out to ticket on car and enforcement officer saying it wasn't them (her) that knocked the door. She will not have seen any bags.

Does that helps in anyway?
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Re: Croydon - (01) Parked on Restricted St during prescribed hours
« Reply #9 on: »
@lemonpie how long prior to the knock on the door had you been parked, and what exactly had you been doing throughout that time?

I think there might be just enough to make an arguable representation but we need specifics especially in terms of time elapsed.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Croydon - (01) Parked on Restricted St during prescribed hours
« Reply #10 on: »
Quote from: cp8759 on April 12, 2024, 09:12:17 am
@lemonpie how long prior to the knock on the door had you been parked, and what exactly had you been doing throughout that time?

I think there might be just enough to make an arguable representation but we need specifics especially in terms of time elapsed.

Thanks - I put in representations yesterday as 14 days was up.

I will update on outcome although I would imagine that the council just reject all representations automatically and see who takes it further?
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Re: Croydon - (01) Parked on Restricted St during prescribed hours
« Reply #11 on: »
Quote from: lemonpie on April 12, 2024, 10:30:05 am
I will update on outcome although I would imagine that the council just reject all representations automatically and see who takes it further?
Well yes, which is why it would be helpful if you answered my question above: how long prior to the knock on the door had you been parked, and what exactly had you been doing throughout that time?
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
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