3. Cpz
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Author Topic: Cpz  (Read 2629 times)

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Re: Cpz
« Reply #15 on: »
There's two aspect to this, the legalities and common sense.

By the letter of the law, you cannot take it upon yourself to decide to park outside of the bay markings, just as I can't decide to do 100 mph on the motorway just because I think the 70 mph limit is outdated and stupid.

That being said, please can we see the terms and conditions for your permit? It has been held on numerous occasions that the requirement to park within the bay markings must be communicated to motorists, and this is usually done in a CPZ but saying so in the terms and conditions of the permits. If this requirement has not been communicated to motorists, it can be argued that this requirement of the traffic regulation order has not been brought to the attention of persons using the road, and for that reason the contravention did not occur.

Decisions on this point:

Cooper v London Borough of Richmond Upon Thames (1990292199, 18 July 2000)
Ernesto Villa Blandino v London Borough of Barnet (2110474195, 28 November 2011)
Michal Budai v London Borough of Barnet (2120008348, 06 February 2012)
Caroline Ratner v London Borough of Barnet (2140338414, 10 September 2014)
Cheryl Kuczynski v London Borough of Barnet (2160033974, 30 April 2016)
Sultan Gangji v London Borough of Barnet (2160439695, 15 November 2016)
Tecwyn Evans v London Borough of Merton (2160499981, 05 January 2017)
Gerald Halibard v London Borough of Barnet (2170225166, 15 June 2017)
Lamin Sesay v London Borough of Southwark (2180188510, 22 June 2018)
Anthony Westmore v London Borough of Barnet (2180064744, 15 March 2018)
Keren Lewin v London Borough of Haringey (2190290943, 28 August 2019)

Then there's the common-sense issue of whether the bay markings should be changed to allow part-footway parking, this would require the nearside part of the bay to be marked on the pavement. That is a political issue to be taken up with the local councillor.

Finally there's the question of whether, in the circumstances where the council seems to be moving towards permitting part-footway parking on this road, the bay markings should be enforced in any event, even if they are enforceable. This comes down to the council's powers to not enforce the PCN.

I have requested the traffic order from the council, in the meantime please post the terms and conditions of your permit.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Cpz
« Reply #16 on: »
The paper part can be seen here.

https://imgur.com/a/fo3F4tO
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Re: Cpz
« Reply #17 on: »
You might want to redact your name and address.
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Re: Cpz
« Reply #18 on: »
Reposted with address redacted

https://imgur.com/a/InF7rhn
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Re: Cpz
« Reply #19 on: »


https://www.bedford.gov.uk/media/5464

https://www.bedford.gov.uk/media/5460

Reason for Proposal:
Bedford Borough Council has received a request to extend Permit Holders and Pay and Display parking to include St Leonard’s Avenue, Station Road, Maryville Road, Churchville Road, Eastville Road and Southville Road, Bedford. Congested parking in these streets by visitors reduces available parking for residents.



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Re: Cpz
« Reply #20 on: »
I recieved this today.

« Last Edit: August 23, 2023, 03:03:55 pm by cp8759 »
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Re: Cpz
« Reply #21 on: »
Congratulations  :)  :)

You are now free to pursue the case for amending the traffic order
https://www.bedford.gov.uk/media/5461

to allow parking half on pavement as before.
Begin with your own ward councillors
Find Councillor
councillorsupport.bedford.gov.uk

and through them the environment committee.

You need to enlist the support of your neighbours.

As I indicated earlier, your strongest point would seem to be
Quote
It surely cannot be right that the Council are insisting that cars park in such a manner as to cause an obstruction - in itself an offence.

You need to point out the inability, not only of rubbish trucks, but more seriously fire-engines etc., to reach properties.
You should find these
Road widths are given here
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/341513/pdfmanforstreets.pdf

page 79 and onstreet parking discussed pages 102ff.

Road widths are also discussed here
How wide are roads?
Highway Code Resources · mocktheorytest.com

helpful in making your case.

-----------

Be aware that the Council's cancellation of your PCN puts you (and your neighbours) on notice that the Council are strictly enforcing the condition made when issuing a permit to park within a marked bay.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2023, 02:52:54 pm by John U.K. »
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Re: Cpz
« Reply #22 on: »
Thank you for all your help regards this matter, on a further note do you think there is anything we can to do have this abolished or once implemented it's here to stay. I wasn't in favour and i know having spoken to the vast majority of residents they weren't either hence why the lack of communication from the council, it does appear that this has been a back door implementation of the cpz around here, don't ever remember receiving anything regards it until it was approved , parking was never a problem during the day even GSV shows an abundance of places to park and it was only ever in the evening parking was a problem and with the restricted parking times finishing at 6pm it doesn't solve the evening parking issues and most residents new this wouldn't and were against it.
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Re: Cpz
« Reply #23 on: »
Quote
on a further note do you think there is anything we can to do have this abolished or once implemented it's here to stay
You'll never know until you try.

As I said, start with your local ward councillors, enlist the support of your neighbours.
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Re: Cpz
« Reply #24 on: »
Have what abolished, the requirement to display a permit in Southville or the whole amended area?

1. In Southville alone

Why would you want to? Apparently the reason for introducing the controls was because residents had raised concerns with the council about 'congested parking by visitors'. For visitors read any non-resident.
So if you changed Southville only you would worsen, not improve, the situation because those motorists displaced from other streets would soon clutter your street and then where would you park?

2. The whole amended area?

On what basis, your experiences? A non-starter especially since you had your chance to express views during the consultation period before the council finalised its plans and during the formal consultation period of the order.

3. Or what other option

??
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Re: Cpz
« Reply #25 on: »
I must admit, I had assumed (dangerous I know) that it was the requirement to park wholly on the carriageway that needed abolition. There are many places where parking half on pavement is allowed. and many where bays are painted to facilitate this.

It seems to me that Ali has two main issues:
1) obstruction of traffic by parking in marked bays
2) timing of end of restriction at 6pm.

re 2: would changing to 7pm help? or 8pm?

Could it be that the problem in the evening is caused by residents returning from work or from using non-permit areas during the hours of enforcement, rather than by outsiders?

I used to live in an area surrounded by ever-increasing CPZs. As my area became the last CP free zone for miles around, on-street parking became virtually impossible and residents were begging the Council for a CPZ.
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Re: Cpz
« Reply #26 on: »
full edit
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Re: Cpz
« Reply #27 on: »
The problem is that the OP hasn't given us any info regarding the process.

OP, don't reinvent the wheel.

The normal procedure (having determined that there might be a problem) is for the council to:

Call for evidence from stakeholders- normally a letter seeking views on whether the recipient has experienced problems, their details, what they think might be the cause, why?

Possibly a roadshow;

Consideration of options and further consultation on (if it exists) a preferred option;

Officer recommendations to decision maker;

Draft order with mandatory consultation period;

EVERY letter/notice would include the responsible officer's name and contact details.

OP?

Anyway, as you don't have a live PCN perhaps this should be continued in the Flame Pit.
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Re: Cpz
« Reply #28 on: »
Residents returning from work in the evening would congest the area as some households are bedsits with 2 cars per household as well as some family households with more than 2 cars, i never had a problem with finding parking during the day. With us being the last in the cpz zone and the charges councils place on 2nd and 3rd cars in a household i do know of  some residents who were already in a cpz that were reluctant to pay the fees they charge for the 2nd and 3rd cars and then would use this area to park and hey ho the council would say you have a parking problem here, half of it because they push people without permits in pre existing cpz's to park in roads where they dont exist and because we have a series of walkways it only takes 1 min to be on college road, muswell road and mabel road that were pre existing cpz. I guess I'll give up on the idea. The council invent a problem and then say you have a problem.. If they charged the same amount per car regardless of how many cars you had it probably wouldn't be such an issue for people to try and find alternative parking but when you charge excessively more for the 2nd and 3rd cars it hardly seems fair and almost forces people to find parking elsewhere, I'll hang up my boots as the battle i guess will be lost.. Long live fleecing the motorist from all sides. Thanks to all those who gave an input to this subject, hopefully at some point they'll change it to allow us to park on the verges,i guess they would have to, Bedfordshire fire brigade if the info i found today are 3m wide  mirror to mirror.
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Re: Cpz
« Reply #29 on: »
In your shoes I would still pursue the width issue. I would not like to watch my house burn as the fire brigade  couldn't get through because of cars parked in accordance with the Council's latest scheme.

If no-one tellls the Council and the fire brigade of the problem nothing will be done :(
« Last Edit: August 01, 2023, 06:58:38 pm by John U.K. »
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  3. Cpz