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Cpz
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Hi guys,

I was hoping to get some advice on a new cpz that's been intoduced in my area and the road that's causing numerous problems is Southville Road Bedford mk42 9ps, this went live on the 3rd of july this year.
Numerous tickets have been issued namely for no parking permit, but of late we have had tickets issued for not being parked in the marked bays, to adhere to this we would make it impossible for emergency vechiles to pass as the width is 245cm from bay edge on one side of the road to the bay edge on the other side and for this reason we would park on what used to be grass verges that were concreted over to accommodate the safe passing of vechiles but now for those that are parking on these verges the council are issuing pcns. Is anyone able to tell me if the width inbetween conforms to regulation standards and if it doesn't can the cpz for this road be classified as null and void until such a time it's corrected and that all those that were issued tickets entitled to a refund or those going forward contest on this point, street view will show at least i hope the width in comparison to the adjacent roads, i look forward to any help you might be able to give regards this matter.
Road view here,
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Thanks in advance,
Ali
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Re: Cpz
« Reply #1 on: »
Please add both sides of the PCN and a copy of your challenge.
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Re: Cpz
« Reply #2 on: »
These are the pics of front and back of pcn aswell as signage

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Re: Cpz
« Reply #3 on: »
Appeal

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Re: Cpz
« Reply #4 on: »
GSV shows that you had a 'legitimate expectation' of part-parking on footway.
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Just noting these for the wider issue.

Road widths are given here
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/341513/pdfmanforstreets.pdf

page 79 and onstreet parking discussed pages 102ff.


Road widths are also discussed here
How wide are roads?
Highway Code Resources · mocktheorytest.com
« Last Edit: July 28, 2023, 07:25:30 pm by John U.K. »
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Re: Cpz
« Reply #5 on: »
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Cpz
« Reply #6 on: »

GSV shows that you had a 'legitimate expectation' of part-parking on footway.

Sorry John UK, why is this very limited legal defence engaged here?

The most recent GSV shows shots from June 2023 and April 2012, not a comprehensive time series. In addition, there weren't parking bays in 2012, so the situations are chalk and cheese IMO.

OP, what is the backstory here and pl can we have a clear photo of one of the parking signs - they're covered in GSV.

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Re: Cpz
« Reply #7 on: »
Quote
GSV shows that you had a 'legitimate expectation' of part-parking on footway.

Sorry John UK, why is this very limited legal defence engaged here?
...pl can we have a clear photo of one of the parking signs - they're covered in GSV. 

The sign is in reply#2.

It would appear that GSV date is before the new scheme came into force. However, the series of GSV shot give strength to the OP's challenge in reply#3. As the residents had always parked in that manner because otherwise (as was proved this week with a rubbish collection vehicle) wide vehicles cannot get through (fire-engines?) it seems reasonable to me that absent any direction to park wholly in marked bays, they would continue to park in the accustomed manner. I am aware that as a defence to the current PCN it would only work once, but am assuming the experts here may also be able to find further reasons for cancellation of the PCN after, for example, examiming the 'small print' and the TMO...

It surely cannot be right that the Council are insisting that cars park in such a manner as to cause an obstruction - in itself an offence.

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Note to Ali

You are fighting on two fronts --
1) against the current PCN
2) against the execution of the new scheme itself.
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Re: Cpz
« Reply #8 on: »

I can see a close-up of a traffic sign. No idea where it is or if Southville what side of the road. Indeed, we haven't seen any photos of the OP's car in contravention.

OP, we only see what you post, not the context. 

And as regards uncorroborated claims about refuse vehicles.. As I posted but to which the OP has not replied, we need the backstory. IMO and IME it totally implausible that this issue has come out of the blue and equally that the general points raised here have not already been aired with and considered by the council.

IMO, there is no chance of a successful defence of legitimate expectation based only on the evidence of a moment in time snapshot. 
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Re: Cpz
« Reply #9 on: »
Quote
I can see a close-up of a traffic sign. No idea where it is or if Southville what side of the road.

It is the same sign as covered up in GSV. Note the telegraph pole, the background houses, satellite dish and roses!

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Ali, could you give us the date when the covers came off and the scheme began, please.

Also give us some idea of the consultations before the scheme was made and the advance warnings of its commencement.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2023, 04:08:43 pm by John U.K. »
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Re: Cpz
« Reply #10 on: »
OP, you could take photos easily, so I suggest you do. Also, where are the councils photos?

@John UK, Poirotesque sleuthing is all well and good but we don't know where the OP's car was parked and this sign's relevance.

And for the benefit of other readers, as regards GSV there are moment in time shots (covering as long as it took the GSV vehicle to traverse the road) from Jun 2023, Apr 2012 and 2009 in each of which the majority of cars is parked on the carriageway, even after the parking bay markings had been placed. Closer inspection suggests a correlation between limited specific locations and parking on the footway i.e. vehicles in the immediate vicinity of the Churchville junction.

OP, over to you for the council's photos pl and the backstory.
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Re: Cpz
« Reply #11 on: »
The covers came off on the 3rd of july this year, as far as the consultation goes I'm aware there was one, i assumed most of the residents were against it and that it wouldn't go ahead, other than how what and when i have no clue other than something i believe recieved in march this year to let us know it was going ahead.. On google maps it can me seen that the concrete verges are on the left hand side of southville road when you enter from Maryville road and then both sides after churchville road
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Re: Cpz
« Reply #12 on: »
I'm struggling to add more pictures to this post any suggestions please
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Re: Cpz
« Reply #13 on: »
It is the same sign as covered up in GSV. Note the telegraph pole, the background houses, satellite dish and roses! If this helps when you go on GSV I'm the vauxhall zafira parked on the opposite side on the day i got the ticket i was parked in the place of the hyundai well way from the edge of the bay, literally where he was parked is where i was parked
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Re: Cpz
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