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Hi all I have already posted this on the pepipoo site and it was suggested that I post here, is this ok please ?

It's posted under user VICTORY23

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Hi everyone I have a problem arising from TFL and the Northampton Count Court that I am sure someone has already experienced. With absolutley no prior notice or warning I had bailiff's turn up at my house yesterday. I was not at home but I spoke to the bailiff n the phone and he supplied me basic details of the "court order" this was the PCN ref, vehicle reg, location and date. When I checked these out sure enough it was for a PCN on a vehicle I own but issued from a CCTV image. This was on 18 April 2023 and I definitley did not receive a PCN nor did I receive any further reminders, charge notices etc. During this time I have received post from the Royal Mail. The vehicle was registered to me with the correct name and address and I checked this with TFL. Further to this I did not receive any letters from Northampton court not one. Also the bailiff claims to have sent me a letter dated 21 August 2023 that they charged me £75 for and that also never arrived. I am at a complete loss to explain this situation and none of the organizations involved are interested in helping. It is unfortunately too late to avoid paying this judgement but I wanted to understand how this can be legal. If I had a chance to pay the original fine it would have been £80 but through no fault of mine it rose to £560. Please let me know your thoughts.
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Advertisement   post Yesterday, 15:43
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nextdoor
post Yesterday, 16:23
Post #2


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For the reasons explained at
https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/a-new-beg.../msg985/#msg985
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showto...p;#entry1788210
and
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=150840

I would suggest you start a new thread on https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-no...tfl-and-so-on)/

with guidance on posting here
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-no...cil-tfl-dartme/
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Incandescent
post Yesterday, 18:43
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It is not too late to submit an Out-of-Time Statutory Declaration that you did not receive the PCN. Despite paying the bailiffs you can still submit this, and if it is granted, the liability returns to the original PCN amount.

QUOTE
The vehicle was registered to me with the correct name and address and I checked this with TFL. Further to this I did not receive any letters from Northampton court not one.
But was the vehicle name and address correct on the contravention date ? Time and time again we get cases like yours and it almost always ends up that the name and address was not correct or out-of-date on or around the offence date. So please tell us what was checked with TfL. Please also note that the Traffic Enforcement Centre at Northampton don't send out anything. The statutory enforcement documents are all sent out by TfL. So, just so you know, you have failed to receive: -
- PCN
- Charge Certificate (adds 50% to the penalty)
- Order for Recovery (adds £9 to the CC penalty)
These are issued over a period of several weeks staring from a few days after the contravention date.

Even if you pay the bailiff, you can still submit an Out-of-Time Statutory Declaration that you did not receive the PCN. HOwever, you must also say why you think the PCN was not received.
So, is there anything peculiar about your mail arrangements ?
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VICTORY23
post Today, 08:49
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Thank you so much for your reply and your understanding of my situation. The vehicle was definitely registered to me from January 2021 to August 2023. I was not the driver it was my son and he would have paid the original PCN without question had we known about it. As I have not received any letters at all from TFL I cant be sure what address they had for me. The bailiff however did have my address and the details he gave me all checked out.

I am aware of the Statutory Declaration form PE3 as I have had to do this a month ago when I received an "order for the recovery of unpaid penalty charge" this one did actually come in the post although I had not had anything prior to this. I went to the local court and swore an oath and emailed and I am awaiting the outcome.

I know it is possible to download these PE3 forms from the internet but I did not realise that I can still send it at this stage so thank you for the advice there. As for my address and my post I have lived at my same address for over 30 years and whilst the post is not so good lately I cant believe that I failed to receive possibly 6 letters regarding this PCN and maybe another 4 or 5 on the previous PCN.

Is this perhaps a way to maximise the revenue for TFL or do they have a serious mail issue ?
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Incandescent
post Today, 10:20
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So....
Contravention date - 23rd April 2023
Car registered with yourself - January 2021 - August 2023
However, you have lived at the address for 30 years. So when the car was purchased, who entered the V5 details, you or a dealer ?

What you need to do is find out from TfL what address they used to send out the statutory documents. It is possible they have made a transcription error when entering the name and address received from DVLA into their system. You also need to find out from DVLA what address was recorded for the vehicle on or around the contravention date.

During your time with the car, did you always receive the VED reminders from DVLA ? ALmost all cases we see like yours eventually come down to an error in the address on the V5.
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VICTORY23
post Today, 11:16
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Owned car between January 2021 and August 2023. The V5 was in my name and the correct address. Tfl confirmed that they had my correct address over the telephone and the bailiff obviously did as well. The V5 has been in my name from January 2021 to August 2023 without any doubt. I have been to the county court this morning and sworn an oath with a PE3 that I have now emailed. It is just not possible to prove that the letters did not arrive but TFL cant prove that they were sent so what will happen ?





You say you received an Order for Recovery about a month ago. You submitted the Statutory Declaration. As yet there is no response from the TEC?
Did you get an email acknowledgement that an SD had been submitted.
Are you certain that this OfR relates to a different PCN than the one discussed in this topic?
Who was the enforcement authority on that OfR? Also TFL?




Hi regarding this current PCN I had the visit from the bailiff 2 days ago and I paid their fee yesterday. I never received and paperwork at all for this PCN.

I did receive a judgement from the court a few weeks ago for a separate PCN which prior to the order for recovery letter I had not had anything. This on came with a PE3 that I completed and took to the county court for the oath. I emailed it the same day and I am awaiting a response.

Sorry for the confusion and thanks again for your continuing help.

You absolutely should NOT submit forms PE2 and PE3 until we have firmly established what has gone wrong.

Check the V5 as asked and, when doing so, look at every single detail. Report your findings back here.

Phone TEC and ask (just this) what was the original address the debt was registerec to? -- and compare it to yours.
Do you live in a block of flats for instance and is the address complete?

-----------
I'm very worried about your recent statutory declaration a month ago; you must have heard something by now and, if not, why have you not phoned to check on progress?
What was the address you e-mailed it to? and did you receive an auto-acknowledgement (normally within a few minutes)?

But you've ignored much of what I've said?

You haven't done the address check with TEC and closed now until Monday.

You haven't answered where you sent the more recent PE3 or asked TEC what the outcome was.

Something else you can do as a matter of routine is to look at the case histories for each pcn on the TfL website. Do that and paste them here.

I have limited time to help, so when we make a suggestion I mean exactly what I say and there's a reason for it --- which we don't often have time to explain.

I will email the TEC on Monday and ask what addresses they hold relating to both the PCN's

This is not what I suggested: You need to ask the question I suggested which, if the advisor is helpful, will lead into any further detail they have about possible changes to your address that may have occurred along the way.

Why? Take a look at form PE2 and you will see that it poses a specific question. You don't currently have an answer to that question so any application will fail.

--------
On the matter of the recent PE3 I'm struggling to understand how you're so laid back? We've already told you a response should have been received well before now.
So, for the third time, what e-mail address did you use and did you receive an auto-acknowledgement?

For the PCN case histories you only need to give us the numbers and the VRM and we can look ourselves.

The first PCN is YJ58264268 VRM YK61OXN 25 May 2023 I dis nor receive the original PCN's from TFL but did receive the order for recovery which is when I sent the PE3.

The second PCN is GX06778756 VRM YK61OXN 18 April 2023 and I did not receive anything ever.

Quote from: Neil B on September 24, 2023, 11:03:39 am

For the PCN case histories you only need to give us the numbers and the VRM and we can look ourselves.

Where?

You can see the case history for TFL PCNs at https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/challenge-a-pcn



The PCN appears to have been issued yesterday but we know TFL don't have any postal collections on Saturday, so chances are you'll get it Tuesday or Wednesday. While the regulations for ULEZ do not explicitly state that the date of the PCN must be the date of posting, it's still arguable that it should be.

For the other one, I can only recommend you follow Neil's advice.