Author Topic: Council Kiosk User Interface Issues - do I have a hope in hell?  (Read 5693 times)

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Council Kiosk User Interface Issues - do I have a hope in hell?
« on: »
Hi, welcome knowing if should just pay the £25 before 2nd October, or should I go through the appeal process with a hope of wining?...



BACKGROUND INFO:

1) I received a fine on the car window from the local council for parking in a council-run facility. I attempted to obtain a ticket, but the full registration number was not entered or printed correctly, which resulted in a fine being issued:






2) I submitted an informal challenge to the fine on the basis of the following...


“I am writing to challenge PCN OHXXXXXXXX issued at Tudor Grange car park for some, but not limited to, the reasons indicated below:
 A valid ticket was attained by he driver (evidence of token attached), but due to visual impairment, disability and the poor visibility of the machine interface and processing, the car reg was not registered correctly on the token. I believe this constitutes a minor error, considering the parking was within the time frame, a ticket attempt occurred -  and that the council importantly has a duty under the Equality Act 2010 to make reasonable adjustments for disabled users. TPT decisions often cite proportionality, fairness, and legitimate expectation—especially when the user made a genuine effort to comply. I respectfully request cancellation of the PCN on grounds of payment made, accessibility barriers, and procedural fairness. Welcome your contact to confirmation of this and response should be via email also to ensure it is received, as not permanently at that address. Thanks."



3) I was given this informal response:







It seems ridiculous for them to fine when an attempt was made for the ticket. The kiosk are very difficult to operate: The machines have response delay, the screens are very hard to see (particularly in bright sunlight or when it’s raining), I am unsure whether these machines meet accessibility and legal compliance requirements?













 I have gathered some general information about accessibility standards and requirements for such machines (provided below) in case it nudges any thoughts?...

⚖️ Legal Context

In the UK, local councils must ensure parking infrastructure is compliant with:
    1. Equality Act 2010
        ◦ Requires “reasonable adjustments” so that people with disabilities are not placed at a substantial disadvantage compared to non-disabled users.
        ◦ This applies to physical access (height, reach, tactile buttons) and information access (readability of screens, instructions, contrast, visibility).
    2. Public Sector Equality Duty (PSED)
        ◦ Councils like Solihull have a duty to anticipate and address barriers faced by disabled people.<br>
        ◦ They must show they considered accessibility in procurement and deployment of machines.<br>
    3. BS EN 301 549 (Accessibility requirements for ICT products and services)<br>
        ◦ A European/UK standard, often applied to public machines. Requires features like audio feedback, tactile controls, screen readability, and compatibility with assistive devices.<br>
    4. Traffic Management Act 2004<br>
        ◦ Covers enforcement of parking rules — councils must ensure that pay-and-display systems are fair, transparent, and reasonably usable.<br>


⚠️ Observed User Interface / Accessibility Issues:
    • Small buttons: The keypad buttons are small and flat, which is difficult for people with reduced dexterity (e.g. arthritis, tremors).<br>
    • Screen readability: The LCD screen has low contrast and glare, making it hard to read in bright light or for people with sight impairment.<br>
    • No audio/tactile feedback: Appears to be visual-only, so people with limited vision would struggle.<br>
    • High reliance on fine motor skills: Typing in full registration number with small round buttons is a barrier.<br>
    • Payment limitations: Coins only (no card/contactless, no app QR link visible) — disadvantages people who cannot handle coins easily.<br>
    • Height & angle: Depending on installation, may not be wheelchair-accessible if keypad/screen is too high.<br>


✅ What Councils Should Ensure
To be compliant and fair, councils like Solihull should check machines against:<
Accessible design guidance (BS 8300, inclusive design in the built environment).
Alternative payment methods: App, phone call, card/contactless.
Screen accessibility: High-contrast, large text, good visibility in sunlight.
Tactile & audio support: Raised lettering on keys, audio prompts, or headphone socket.
Reachability: Installed at a height usable for wheelchair users.
Reasonable adjustments: For those unable to use the machine, ensure there are alternative methods (e.g. pay by phone, permit schemes, disabled exemptions).


🔎 Bottom line:
These machines are likely legal but may not meet accessibility requirements under the Equality Act 2010 and PSED if they are the only way to register for free parking.<br>

Councils must show they considered disabled users’ needs. A “sighted people only” design could be challenged as indirect discrimination.<br>

At minimum, Solihull Council should provide alternative methods (phone/app/online registration) to ensure inclusion.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2025, 04:09:07 am by advicewelcome »

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Re: Council Kiosk User Interface Issues - do I have a hope in hell?
« Reply #1 on: »
You've blanked the details so we can't check if councils pics available.

What digit did you get wrong?

The terms board just says you must clearly display a parking ticket, which you did, so to enforce this they are reliant on the machine instructions which say enter the full VRM, and that failure to buy a valid ticket for the duration may result in a PCN, which implies the key is cover for the stay and there is nothing that says a VRM error is not valid.

This is backed up by the order, which says:

The Driver of a vehicle using a pay and display Parking Place shall upon leaving the
vehicle in the Parking Place, and on payment of a charge, purchase a Pay and Display
Ticket at the level of charge and for the period required in accordance with the
instructions on the machine
and the scale of charges specified in the Schedule.


https://tro.trafficpenaltytribunal.gov.uk/TRO/Solihull/OH05.pdf

There is no reference to having to get the VRM right and there is no dispute you had cover for the right time in the right car park.

I would go on the main terms board does not state what can give rise to a PCN and like some other councils they have junked their duty to act fairly for a one off error that has no impact on them.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2025, 09:33:16 am by stamfordman »

Re: Council Kiosk User Interface Issues - do I have a hope in hell?
« Reply #2 on: »
All photos are illegible on my ipad.

Re: Council Kiosk User Interface Issues - do I have a hope in hell?
« Reply #3 on: »






Re: Council Kiosk User Interface Issues - do I have a hope in hell?
« Reply #4 on: »
@stamfordman, many thanks.

OP, have you posted the back of your PCN and the P&D ticket itself?
You refer to disability, pl expand on this as it directly affects you.
What's the VRM and are you the registered keeper with current DVLA details?


Re: Council Kiosk User Interface Issues - do I have a hope in hell?
« Reply #5 on: »
« Last Edit: September 22, 2025, 11:53:25 am by stamfordman »

Re: Council Kiosk User Interface Issues - do I have a hope in hell?
« Reply #6 on: »
Sorry not got the hang of pic posting on this site

This is link to the PCN front and back:
https://postimg.cc/gallery/5XygtLY

Letters from council link:
https://postimg.cc/gallery/s7hRcD9

This is the Kiosk & Signage pics:
https://postimg.cc/gallery/C0tqhBk

Pic of the actual token:
https://postimg.cc/94HYVjTp

Pic of ticket attached to car:
https://postimg.cc/F1CgP6rT


As per token, I entered "YY" instead of a normal car reg of "YXX XXX"

Driver is reg keeper at DVLA.

Can't see that blasted screen and impossible to press those buttons.

https://www.flowbird.com/our-solutions/parking-solutions/on-street/
...These people make them so not sure if they are compliant to any public standards.


Welcome if have "winable" grounds for appeal, and what I would need to do? Is the £25 bait, and will they offer that again?
« Last Edit: September 22, 2025, 03:43:44 pm by advicewelcome »

Re: Council Kiosk User Interface Issues - do I have a hope in hell?
« Reply #7 on: »
Hi,

I think I may be able to send an email to the Solihull Parking email and to the Councillor in charge of Parking - would the below work? And if not, it can be used at the TPT?

What do you think its chances of its success at TPT? 50% chance of winning, 70%, 10%?

Will help me estimate if its worth the time to submit or pay the £25.


******************


Subject: Formal Appeal Against PCN OHXXXXXXXX – Tudor Grange Leisure Centre, 24/08/2025

To Whom It May Concern,

I am writing to ascertain assistance in regard to Penalty Charge Notice OHXXXXXXXX, issued on 24/08/2025 at Tudor Grange Leisure Centre Car Park. I respectfully request cancellation of the PCN on the grounds of factual compliance, procedural unfairness, and breach of statutory duties under the Equality Act 2010 and the Traffic Management Act 2004.



1. Factual Background
  • A valid Pay & Display ticket was obtained at 16:03 on 24/08/2025, covering parking until 18:00.
  • The ticket was clearly displayed on the dashboard, as evidenced in the attached photograph.
  • Due to visual impairment and poor machine interface design, the vehicle registration mark (VRM) was entered incorrectly.
  • The Civil Enforcement Officer issued the PCN at 17:08, despite the vehicle being covered for the full duration and parked in a marked bay.


2. Compliance with the Traffic Regulation Order (TRO OH05)
The relevant clauses of the Solihull TRO OH05 state:
  • Clause 6(1):
     “The Driver of a vehicle using a pay and display Parking Place shall upon leaving the vehicle in the Parking Place, and on payment of a charge, purchase a Pay and Display Ticket at the level of charge and for the period required in accordance with the instructions on the machine…”
  • Clause 6(2):
     “The Driver shall display the Pay and Display Ticket issued in respect of the vehicle in a conspicuous position on the dashboard or fascia of the vehicle so that the ticket is clearly visible from the outside of the vehicle.”
  • Clause 6(3):
     “A Pay and Display Ticket shall be valid only for the vehicle in respect of which it was issued and for the Parking Place in which it was issued.”
I complied with all three clauses:
  • The correct charge was paid.
  • The ticket was displayed conspicuously.
  • The ticket was issued for the correct location and used by the driver of the vehicle in question.
The TRO does not explicitly require perfect VRM entry for a ticket to be valid. Enforcement based solely on machine instructions—without clear incorporation into the TRO—is legally unsound and ultra vires.


3. Equality Act 2010 – Reasonable Adjustments
Under Sections 20 and 29 of the Equality Act 2010, Solihull Council has a duty to make reasonable adjustments for disabled service users.
  • The machine interface was inaccessible when there are visually impairment and challenging light conditions.
  • The failure to accommodate this barrier, and the refusal to cancel the PCN despite being informed, constitutes indirect discrimination.
  • The Council must consider the Public Sector Equality Duty (Section 149) to eliminate discrimination and advance equality of opportunity.

4. Statutory Guidance – Discretion and Fairness
Under the Statutory Guidance to Local Authorities on Civil Parking Enforcement (TMA 2004, Section 87):
Quote
“An authority has a discretionary power to cancel a PCN at any point throughout the process. It can do this even when an undoubted contravention has occurred if the authority deems it to be appropriate in the circumstances of the case.”
Quote
“Under general principles of public law, authorities have a duty to act fairly and proportionately and are encouraged to exercise discretion sensibly and reasonably and with due regard to the public interest. Failure to act in accordance with the general principles of public law may lead to a claim for a decision to be judicially reviewed.”
In this case, the contravention—if any—was minor, unintentional, and caused by accessibility barriers. The vehicle was parked lawfully, paid for, and caused no harm. The Council’s refusal to exercise discretion is disproportionate and contrary to public law principles.
Furthermore, the guidance states:
Quote
“Authorities should formulate (with advice from their legal department) and then publish their policies on the exercise of discretion. They should apply these policies flexibly and judge each case on its merits. An enforcement authority should be ready to depart from its policies if the particular circumstances of the case warrant it.”
Quote
“The enforcement authority should have clear policies, instructions and training available on how to exercise such authority. These policies should form the basis for staff training and should be published.”
To date, Solihull Council has not previously published any such discretionary policy, nor provided evidence that staff are trained to apply discretion fairly and flexibly. This omission undermines transparency, accountability, and the Council’s legal obligations under the guidance.


5. Remedy Sought
I respectfully request that the PCN be cancelled on the grounds that:
  • The parking was paid for and covered the relevant time.
  • The error was minor and caused by accessibility barriers.
  • The TRO does not support enforcement for VRM entry errors.
  • The Council has a statutory duty to act fairly and make reasonable adjustments.
  • The Council has failed to publish or apply a discretionary policy as required under statutory guidance.

Should this appeal be rejected, I intend to escalate the matter to the Traffic Penalty Tribunal and, if necessary, raise a formal complaint regarding breach of the Equality Act and failure to act proportionately.
Thank you for your attention to this matter.

Yours faithfully,
[Name]
[Email Address]
[Vehicle Registration]
[PCN Reference]


******************
« Last Edit: October 01, 2025, 03:14:32 am by advicewelcome »

Re: Council Kiosk User Interface Issues - do I have a hope in hell?
« Reply #8 on: »
Why are you preparing formal reps, you don't have a NTO!

Re: Council Kiosk User Interface Issues - do I have a hope in hell?
« Reply #9 on: »
Why are you preparing formal reps, you don't have a NTO!

1) I am trying to eval the chance of formal reps being successful before the 14 days option to pay £25 expires. If there is low'ish chance of success I need to ditch this now - its also too easy to loose paperwork or miss a letter deadline.


2) Also seeing if I can use this content - or something similar - to make direct contact with parking dept or parking councillor to ask for intervention in the process (within the 14 day window) - think they have done that previously, but not sure wuld do it in this case.


The first (1) reason is the main one - does that make sense? Is it a comprehensive reply and what's the chances of success - 50% or less?
« Last Edit: October 01, 2025, 11:19:01 am by advicewelcome »

Re: Council Kiosk User Interface Issues - do I have a hope in hell?
« Reply #10 on: »
Councils invariably reject all informal challenges, because they know that if they do, most people then just cough-up.

Re: Council Kiosk User Interface Issues - do I have a hope in hell?
« Reply #11 on: »
Councils invariably reject all informal challenges, because they know that if they do, most people then just cough-up.

Thanks. They did write a very specific letter back indicating that a "YY" attempt was not enough (below)

That said, what are the chances of winning considering the facts of this case? - because if I know the approx % chance of winning I can make a calculations if its worth pursuing? I just want to be realistic.




**ECONOMY & INFRASTRUCTURE DIRECTORATE**
Council House, Manor Square,
Solihull, West Midlands B91 3QB
[www.solihull.gov.uk](http://www.solihull.gov.uk)

**Date:** 18 September 2025

**Notice of Rejection of Informal Representation/Challenge**
Traffic Management Act 2004 S78

**PENALTY CHARGE NOTICE NUMBER:**
**DATE OF ISSUE:** 24/08/2025 at 17:09
**VEHICLE REGISTRATION NUMBER:**
**LOCATION OF CONTRAVENTION:** Tudor Grange Leisure Centre

---

Thank you for writing to us.

We have carefully considered what you say but we have decided not to cancel your Penalty Charge Notice (PCN).

You were issued a PCN for not having a Pay & Display ticket that was both valid and clearly displayed. Even if you have a Pay & Display ticket, you must display it so that a Civil Enforcement Officer (CEO) can see all its details.

Before issuing PCNs, our CEOs check for any parking items displayed and record the details. The CEO saw an invalid Pay & Display ticket. This can happen, for example, when people do not input the correct registration when obtaining a ticket via the machine.

I have taken a further look into the ticket that was displayed when the PCN was issued and can confirm that you have inputted "YY", however your vehicle registration is "YYxxxxx". It remains the responsibility of the motorist to ensure that you input the correct vehicle registration when obtaining a ticket.

Whilst I appreciate this was not intentional, this does not serve as grounds to cancel the Charge. Tickets are not dispensed until the user confirms the details inputted. In this instance it would have been advisable to have checked that all the information was correct before dispensing your ticket.

It is expected that drivers check their ticket prior to being displayed to ensure that all details are correct. In doing this you would have been alerted to the incorrect registration that had been submitted.

As you have contravened the parking regulations, I am unable to withdraw your PCN.

---

**You have these choices:**

* You can pay the discount charge of £25.00 if your payment reaches us within 14 days of the date of this letter.
* You can pay £50.00 within 28 days of the date your PCN was issued.
* You can formally challenge your PCN by using a Notice to Owner form. The vehicle’s owner will automatically receive the form if the PCN has not been paid within 28 days of being issued. The form offers you the chance to formally challenge your PCN or pay the full £50.00. If you decide to formally challenge your PCN, please do not write to us again but wait until the Notice to Owner form arrives.

**How to pay:**

* **Online** at [www.solihull.gov.uk](http://www.solihull.gov.uk). Go to ‘Parking’ and click ‘Pay a Parking Fine’.
* **Telephone** 0121 704 8000
* **Automated Telephone Payments** 0300 4560502
* **By Cheque** – made payable to ‘Solihull Metropolitan Borough Council’ sent to: Parking Services, Council House, Solihull, B91 3QB


Yours sincerely,
Parking Officer
« Last Edit: October 01, 2025, 03:46:25 pm by advicewelcome »

Re: Council Kiosk User Interface Issues - do I have a hope in hell?
« Reply #12 on: »
IMO, procedural improprieties abound in the PCN.

(7) A penalty charge notice given under this regulation must include the information set out in—

(a)Schedule 2, and

(b)regulation 3(1) of the 2022 Appeals Regulations.

Schedule 2

Particulars to be included in a penalty charge notice given under regulation 9

Para. 2
(d)that the penalty charge must be paid within the period of 28 days beginning with the date on which the alleged contravention occurred,


(f)that if the penalty charge is not paid within the period of 28 days referred to in sub-paragraph (d), a notice to owner may be served by the enforcement authority on the owner of the vehicle.
 

2(f) Is NOT there.

Regulation 3(1):
3.—(1) A regulation 9 penalty charge notice must include the following information—

(a)that a person on whom a notice to owner is served may, in accordance with these Regulations, make representations to the enforcement authority against the penalty charge and, if those representations are rejected, appeal to an adjudicator;

(b)that if, before a notice to owner is served, representations against the penalty charge are received at such address as may be specified in the notice for the purpose those representations will be considered by the enforcement authority;

(c)that if a notice to owner is served despite the representations mentioned in sub-paragraph (b), representations against the penalty charge must be made to the enforcement authority in the form and manner and at the time specified in the notice to owner.


3(1)(c) is NOT there.






Re: Council Kiosk User Interface Issues - do I have a hope in hell?
« Reply #13 on: »
IMO, procedural improprieties abound in the PCN.

(7) A penalty charge notice given under this regulation must include the information set out in—

(a)Schedule 2, and

(b)regulation 3(1) of the 2022 Appeals Regulations.

Schedule 2

Particulars to be included in a penalty charge notice given under regulation 9

Para. 2
(d)that the penalty charge must be paid within the period of 28 days beginning with the date on which the alleged contravention occurred,


(f)that if the penalty charge is not paid within the period of 28 days referred to in sub-paragraph (d), a notice to owner may be served by the enforcement authority on the owner of the vehicle.
 

2(f) Is NOT there.

Regulation 3(1):
3.—(1) A regulation 9 penalty charge notice must include the following information—

(a)that a person on whom a notice to owner is served may, in accordance with these Regulations, make representations to the enforcement authority against the penalty charge and, if those representations are rejected, appeal to an adjudicator;

(b)that if, before a notice to owner is served, representations against the penalty charge are received at such address as may be specified in the notice for the purpose those representations will be considered by the enforcement authority;

(c)that if a notice to owner is served despite the representations mentioned in sub-paragraph (b), representations against the penalty charge must be made to the enforcement authority in the form and manner and at the time specified in the notice to owner.


3(1)(c) is NOT there.


Procedural audit of the Solihull Metropolitan Borough Council PCN, assessed against the statutory requirements under:
  • Regulation 9(7) of the Civil Enforcement of Road Traffic Contraventions (England) General Provisions Regulations 2022 (SI 2022/71)
  • Schedule 2 of the same regulations
  • Regulation 3(1) of the Civil Enforcement of Road Traffic Contraventions (Representations and Appeals) (England) Regulations 2022 (SI 2022/576)



🚨 Procedural Audit of Solihull PCN (Regulation 9)
RequirementLegal SourceComplianceNotes
Payment deadline (28 days from contravention)Schedule 2, para 2(d)✅ PresentClearly stated on front of PCN
Notice to Owner may be served if unpaidSchedule 2, para 2(f)❌ MissingNo mention of NtO escalation if unpaid
Right to make representations after NtOReg 3(1)(c)❌ MissingNo info about formal reps post-NtO
Right to make informal representations before NtOReg 3(1)(b)✅ PresentReverse side includes this right
Right to appeal if reps rejectedReg 3(1)(a)✅ PresentMentions adjudicator appeal process
Address for informal representationsReg 3(1)(b)✅ PresentSolihull Connect address provided
Contravention details (code, location, time)Schedule 2, para 2(a–c)✅ PresentCode 83, location, timestamp, vehicle info
Discount period (14 days)Schedule 2, para 2(e)✅ Present£25 if paid within 14 days
Clarity on date of service vs contraventionReg 9(2)⚠️ AmbiguousUses “date of service” but doesn’t clarify it’s same as contravention date


🔍 Summary of Procedural Defects
  • Missing Schedule 2(f): No mention that a Notice to Owner may be served if unpaid.
  • Missing Regulation 3(1)(c): No info about formal representations after NtO.
  • Ambiguity in service date phrasing: Could confuse recipients about payment deadlines.
These are mandatory inclusions under the 2022 regulations. Their absence constitutes procedural impropriety, which is valid grounds for cancellation under the Traffic Penalty Tribunal.


🚨 Key Procedural Improprieties

1. Missing Notice to Owner Warning (Schedule 2, para 2(f))
Quote
“...that if the penalty charge is not paid within the period of 28 days referred to in sub-paragraph (d), a notice to owner may be served…”
  • Why it matters: This informs the recipient of the next legal step. Its absence is a breach of mandatory content and has been upheld as a procedural impropriety in tribunal decisions.
2. Missing Post-NtO Representation Rights (Reg 3(1)(c))
Quote
“...representations against the penalty charge must be made to the enforcement authority in the form and manner and at the time specified in the notice to owner.”
  • Why it matters: The PCN must explain that even if informal reps are rejected, formal reps can be made after an NtO is served. This is a statutory safeguard, and its omission is a clear procedural defect.


⚠️ Additional Observations
  • Ambiguity in “date of service”: The PCN uses the phrase “date on which this PCN was served,” which is technically correct for a Regulation 9 PCN (served at the time of issue). However, it could be clearer by explicitly stating that the date of contravention and date of service are the same.
  • No mention of approved device: While not strictly required unless issued by camera, it’s good practice to state whether the PCN was based on direct observation or an approved device.

✅ What’s Done Correctly
  • Clear contravention details
  • Proper discount period
  • Informal challenge instructions
  • Address for representations
  • Mention of adjudicator appeal rights

🧠 Strategic Takeaway

Two solid procedural improprieties—both of which are mandatory inclusions under the regulations. These alone are sufficient grounds to challenge the PCN. If Solihull rejects your informal representation, you’ll have a strong case before the Traffic Penalty Tribunal.



... so you think high chance of TPT deciding in favour based on these things - let alone the other representations? - maybe 90%  success rate?
« Last Edit: October 01, 2025, 09:36:53 pm by advicewelcome »

Re: Council Kiosk User Interface Issues - do I have a hope in hell?
« Reply #14 on: »
You are expert at obfuscation: simplicity is not your forte!

You are making formal reps to council officers, so I suggest simple and concise.
This is not the Scopes trial or a submission to the Supreme Court.

You keep asking about the likelihood of success expressed in percentage terms, but the answer is that no-one can foresee what could happen if the authority rejected your reps.
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