Author Topic: Cornwall Council, (40) Parked in a designated disabled bay, Trinity Street-St Austell.  (Read 1688 times)

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I will draft you a representation tomorrow
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just before i draft a representation please confirm you are the grey van

just before i draft a representation please confirm you are the grey van

Correct, the grey van. I appreciate your time on this.

Convert this to PDF after completing the bits you need to fill in then send to the council

Representation against the imposition and continued enforcement of

PCN number xxxxxxxx

VRM AA23 BCD
(your details )

I make formal representation against the above numbered PCN under the statutory ground that

The contravention did not occur.

This comes about due to the failure to comply with the requirements of s18 The Local Authorities' Traffic Orders (Procedure) (England and Wales) Regulations 1996

18.—(1) Where an order relating to any road has been made, the order making authority shall take such steps as are necessary to secure

(a) before the order comes into force, the placing on or near the road of such traffic signs in such positions as the order making authority may consider requisite for securing that adequate information as to the effect of the order is made available to persons using the road;

(b) the maintenance of such signs for so long as the order remains in force;

The council have failed to maintain signage in compliance with s18 and thus cannot enforce the order and demand a penalty

I approached the,what can only be described as a lay-by from the direction of South St the lay-by/bay being on my right. There were no road markings and the road surface of the lay-by was,allowing for wear and tear identical to the main carriageway. This being the case I crossed over the carriageway and parked outside number 23 Trinity St. Exiting my van I looked along the length of the lay-by, no signage was visible. The lay-by has all the appearance of an unrestricted section of  carriageway set aside for parking.

Upon return to my vehicle I was somewhat confused to find a PCN so undertook some research originally at the site. I discovered a disabled parking sign at the other end of the bay outside number 11 this sign was set back against the wall of the building and blended in to such a degree as to make it invisible unless looking from directly in front.

That this was the only sign and absent any road markings there was no need to investigate the whole of the lay-by,for as said from all appearance the was not a regulated lay-by.

Further research lead me to TSRGD 2016 and it is allowable that only signs or road markings can be used to indicate a restriction, that TSRGD 2016 is complied with is not the end of the story however.  The requirements of LATOR 1996 s18 must be met. In this case they were not.

Only one sign in at one end of a bay of approx 25 meters without any road markings cannot comply.
Further research with the highways department of the authority indicates that they are aware that the signs and markings are not to standard and that the markings require rectification (copy of email enclosed)
For this reason the PCN should be cancelled 

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Good evening,

i recieved a Notice of Rejection of Representations today.

https://flic.kr/p/2oYUda8
https://flic.kr/p/2oYX7PB
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https://flic.kr/p/2oYX7Ed
https://flic.kr/p/2oYYaND
https://flic.kr/p/2oYZjcr

Any advice going forward would be appreciated. I really thought that the evidence that was put forward would of had this ended by now. The council have definately got a certain Mindset!

Well the discount is not on offer so there's absolutely no point in paying now, as you can't end up any worse off by appealing.

It might be that @Pastmybest is available to represent you, if not I'll pick this one up.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Yes i will deal with this if you wish Please send me a full unredacted copy of all paperwork and a letter of authority. I will PM you my email
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As the authority were foolish enough to put their ignorance of LATOR in the NOR, IMO they haven't a hope in hell at adjudication.

LATOR were made by the Secretary of State pursuant to powers in the RTRA, they therefore import the definitions and meanings of 'traffic signs' in the Act:

64General provisions as to traffic signs.

(1)In this Act “traffic sign” means any object or device (whether fixed or portable) for conveying, to traffic on roads or any specified class of traffic, warnings, information, requirements, restrictions or prohibitions of any description—

(a)specified by regulations made by the [F1relevant authority] , or

(b)authorised by the [F1relevant authority] ,

and any line or mark on a road for so conveying such warnings, information, requirements, restrictions or prohibitions.
  (a point made by others in this thread).

(my emphasis)

IMO, the debate has moved on from whether the road markings were adequate, although this could still be put forward, it's their failure to give proper consideration to your reps because of their use of the wrong legal context - see paras 2 and 3 on p2 of the NOR from to 'I have noted.to...guidance'.


As the authority were foolish enough to put their ignorance of LATOR in the NOR, IMO they haven't a hope in hell at adjudication.

LATOR were made by the Secretary of State pursuant to powers in the RTRA, they therefore import the definitions and meanings of 'traffic signs' in the Act:

64General provisions as to traffic signs.

(1)In this Act “traffic sign” means any object or device (whether fixed or portable) for conveying, to traffic on roads or any specified class of traffic, warnings, information, requirements, restrictions or prohibitions of any description—

(a)specified by regulations made by the [F1relevant authority] , or

(b)authorised by the [F1relevant authority] ,

and any line or mark on a road for so conveying such warnings, information, requirements, restrictions or prohibitions.
  (a point made by others in this thread).

(my emphasis)

IMO, the debate has moved on from whether the road markings were adequate, although this could still be put forward, it's their failure to give proper consideration to your reps because of their use of the wrong legal context - see paras 2 and 3 on p2 of the NOR from to 'I have noted.to...guidance'.

Quite right although i will still lead with the condition of the road marking and position of the sign the lack of understanding of the law leaves them in a no hope position along with 2 procedural proprieties within the NOR re date of service and requirement to inform of reasons costs may be awarded 

Whoever considered has obviously not understood that Signs in LATOR means any traffic signs and includes lines.... which as HCA explains, makes Failure to Consider a solid point to include.

To repeat myself but as they go on about the duty of motorists to check pole signs, there is no duty if the motorist is unaware that they are in a parking bay due to the authority not bothering to maintain lines...which have faded to the point of invisibility

I am today registering the appeal on two grounds the contravention did not occur and also procedural impropriety i will not make a detailed submission just yet whilst we see if the council contest or not

I am today registering the appeal on two grounds the contravention did not occur and also procedural impropriety i will not make a detailed submission just yet whilst we see if the council contest or not


Your appeal has been submitted
and allocated reference number FA00059-2309
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Council have uploaded evidence, nothing new other than TRO's I will go through these over then next couple of days with a view to upload our submission by Friday Time given by the tribunal is Tuesday although they cannot enforce this as the law stipulates that anything presented before the hearing must be considered. No point in getting their backs up though

Thank you again for your time.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2023, 10:13:56 pm by tkake »

Council have uploaded evidence, nothing new other than TRO's I will go through these over then next couple of days with a view to upload our submission by Friday Time given by the tribunal is Tuesday although they cannot enforce this as the law stipulates that anything presented before the hearing must be considered. No point in getting their backs up though

Good Evening all.  @Pastmybest can i enquiry if there has been any update from the tribunal? Only because i've now recieved a charge certificate.

https://flic.kr/p/2p7nZNy
https://flic.kr/p/2p7nDzM