Author Topic: Contravention code 62 PCN. Another PCN same location one year on  (Read 1288 times)

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Hi Guys,
I received a PCN code 62 , one year on after receiving the same ( which was appealed and took all the way to tribunal thanks to the help of other forum members and one in particular)
council didn't turn up at the hearing and didn't send any evidence.

‘Parked with one or more wheels on or over a footpath or any part of a road other than the carriageway’   

Kerb parking is allowed on amidas gardens,


Either way last time i took it all the way out of principle as i don’t think it should stand, and again as last time i feel my car was singled out.

The road in question is amidas gardens in dagenham
Council is Barking and Dagenham.

Please refer to old post from another Forum 
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=146630&st=20&gopid=1754407&#entry1754407

Looking forward to some input on whether i have any grounds i can appeal this yet again

Many thanks

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Re: Contravention code 62 PCN. Another PCN same location one year on
« Reply #1 on: »
It may be same place and could be ten yards down the road.
The signs may be the same and may not be.
Council may have found the resolution
CEO may only patrol once a year.

Point is that to you it may seem the same but to us, it is a brand new one, similar at best.

Any council photos pls?


Re: Contravention code 62 PCN. Another PCN same location one year on
« Reply #3 on: »
Ta
Seems like CEO used burst mode on his camera LOL
Only one shows the lack of road markings.
I suspect that the cable box and lack of space between car and box will be the reason a PCN was served but notoriously difficult to make that stick where footway parking is allowed or normally tolerated.

Streetview date is May 2022.... no changes since then like parking bays repainted or post signs put up??

Re: Contravention code 62 PCN. Another PCN same location one year on
« Reply #4 on: »
That is correct, no changes from street view

Re: Contravention code 62 PCN. Another PCN same location one year on
« Reply #5 on: »
There does seem to have been some repainting of the marked bays since 2020. There is no GSV viewe for 2021.

Your last case was won because B & D offered no evidence so you won by default. Note that this was not a DNC, as B & D did not send a DNC advice to LT.  Would B & D do this again ? Clearly, the only way to find out is to take them to London Tribunals again.

Re: Contravention code 62 PCN. Another PCN same location one year on
« Reply #6 on: »
Same as last time:

Dear London Borough of Barking & Dagenham,

I challenge liability because the alleged contravention did not occur. Footway parking is permitted on Amidas Gardens, and there are no diagram 667.1 signs with a plate specifying "in marked bays", so there is no indication that footway parking is permitted only in marked bays. Should the council wish to pursue this matter further, please would you supply the relevant council resolution made under section 15(4) of the Greater London Council (General Powers) Act 1974, confirming the exact extent of the area where footway parking is permitted.

Yours faithfully,
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Re: Contravention code 62 PCN. Another PCN same location one year on
« Reply #7 on: »
The council apparently rely on:

The London Borough of Barking and Dagenham (Charged-For Parking Places) Consolidation Order 2016.
Map tile V10.

None of that is a resolution under section 15(4) of the 1974 Act, but even if it were, the council has not erected signs saying footway parking is permitted "in marked bays only" as required by section 15(5), so their case fails on that point, as per Lorna Jennifer Whittick v London Borough of Merton (2160383659, 10 October 2016) and Aliecee Cummings v London Borough of Lewisham (219023696A, 18 July 2019)
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Re: Contravention code 62 PCN. Another PCN same location one year on
« Reply #8 on: »
Hey guys.
Update- as expected my appeal has been rejected. Please see attached council response.
I am assuming i now await notice to owner ?
And reappeal with the same response as above ?

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Re: Contravention code 62 PCN. Another PCN same location one year on
« Reply #9 on: »
@cp, what is it that the council are claiming? Is it that there are designated parking places in Amidas in the places indicated on the map tile? If so, did they provide the legend? Is their argument that these are parking places and not 'marked bays'** and therefore parking within is lawful pursuant to the order and that there can be no presumption as regards the rest of Amidas where there aren't markings, which seems to be the OP's argument, with perhaps some legitimate expectation thrown in?

As it stands, none of these parking places is a lawful parking place, see 3(1) and 3(2) of the order. None of these is signed(which is a condition under 3(1)) therefore they are not parking places.

IMO, the OP would need to make an argument as to why they believed that they could park where they did, which didn't have any markings, because I'm not certain that simply proving that what they think are parking places aren't would necessarily succeed. However, it could do just because of the embarrassment factor which could cause the authority to DNC or simply bury their heads as they did last time.

** As I posted in a different thread, 'marked bays' are optional and cannot extend to the carriageway because it's not the carriageway which is at issue, it's the extent of permitted parking on the footway. Markings on the carriageway could only indicate the presence of parking places. But unlike the other thread where these were signed, albeit incorrectly, these so-called parking places aren't signed at all! What a shambles. But would this shambles sway an adjudicator given that the OP wasn't parked within marked bays? IMO, they must be clear on why they did what they did and not just have target practice against the sitting duck which is the council.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2023, 02:28:38 pm by H C Andersen »

Re: Contravention code 62 PCN. Another PCN same location one year on
« Reply #10 on: »
Just an update guys, i am yet to receive not to owner.
Is this normal ?
It has been 5 months.
Many thanks

Re: Contravention code 62 PCN. Another PCN same location one year on
« Reply #11 on: »
Have you checked the online status?

Re: Contravention code 62 PCN. Another PCN same location one year on
« Reply #12 on: »
Just an update guys, i am yet to receive not to owner.
Is this normal ?
It has been 5 months.
Many thanks
They have 6 months to serve an NtO, but if they do they will have to explain themselves to an adjudicator if you stand your ground.

Re: Contravention code 62 PCN. Another PCN same location one year on
« Reply #13 on: »
Yes still active.

Re: Contravention code 62 PCN. Another PCN same location one year on
« Reply #14 on: »
Yes still active.
@julz94 contact the council next week and ask if a notice to owner has been issued. The six month deadline to serve (not send, serve) the nto was 25 April, so if one wasn't posted by 23 April at the latest then it's too late now.

That being said if they did serve one out of time you'd still have to challenge it as being out of time, you could not ignore it.

If nothing has been done it may be that you need to go down the formal complaint route, as you don't want this hanging over you indefinitely.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order