3. Contravention -51 PCN from Harrow Council
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Contravention -51 PCN from Harrow Council
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Hello All forum Wizards and Members,

I drive a company car and have received PCN from Harrow council through vehicle hire company . Date on PCN is 12/09/24 but they had received PCN on 20th and then been pass on to me.

PCN is for contravention -51  FAILING TO COMPLY WITH NO ENTRY RESTRICTION .

I was going to go through that road but soon after seeing a No entry sign i did not go through that road and took a turn to come out of that road to avoid going through no entry which can be clearly seen in Video footage and then stopped there too to confirm what i had seen was right .

As its a busy road took time to re join main road .

Can you please advise on what are my options , If i haven't gone past no entry sign is it still a contravention?.  i was reading CP's response to one of the case where Mitigation circumstances can be used in Harrow PCN appeal . Is that still a case ? if so what mitigation circumstances can be used ?

Below is a link for a video footage.

https://www.harrow.gov.uk/parking-permits


Unfortunately i can not upload my PCN can you guide me as getting an error that "The upload folder is full. Please try a smaller file and/or contact an administrator."smallpdf-convert-20240923-150806.zip
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Re: Contravention -51 PCN from Harrow Council
« Reply #1 on: »
Quote
Unfortunately i can not upload my PCN can you guide me as getting an error that "The upload folder is full.

Have a read of
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/

Use ibb or imgur and post all sides of the PCN here, redacting only name & address.

Quote
Date on PCN is 12/09/24 but they had received PCN on 20th and then been pass on to me.


Is it your name & address on the PCN? If not, whose?
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Re: Contravention -51 PCN from Harrow Council
« Reply #2 on: »
Quote from: John U.K. on September 23, 2024, 03:26:12 pm
Quote
Unfortunately i can not upload my PCN can you guide me as getting an error that "The upload folder is full.

Have a read of
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/

Use ibb or imgur and post all sides of the PCN here, redacting only name & address.

please find below imgur link ,

https://imgur.com/a/30yAynW

Quote
Date on PCN is 12/09/24 but they had received PCN on 20th and then been pass on to me. Council had issued PCN on 12/09/24 which reach leasing company on 20/09/24 and then it been passed over to me today to either make a payment or appeal against.

If i am not wrong i have only 3 days to make a representation is that right ?

please see below link where a video of the contravention can be found,

https://www.harrow.gov.uk/parking-permits


Is it your name & address on the PCN? If not, whose?
No its a company car which is register under Leasing firm.

Many Thanks  John ,
« Last Edit: September 23, 2024, 07:46:16 pm by The Rock »
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Re: Contravention -51 PCN from Harrow Council
« Reply #3 on: »
Quote
Is it your name & address on the PCN? If not, whose?
No its a company car which is register under Leasing firm.

Many Thanks  John ,
Whose name and address? Who sent you the PCN, the leasing firm or your company?

Only the named keeper on the PCN/V5 can make reps, except where the car is leased in which case there is a set statutory procedure whereby the lessor notifies Council that the car is leased to the lessor, and the council cancels the original PCN by sending a Notice of Acceptance to the lessor, and issuing a fresh PCN to the lessee in their name & address.
Until that happens, the lessee has no standing..

I think I've got that right (I'm no expert - others will be along to correct me if I'm wrong).

So you need to find out from the named person on the PCN if they have made reps, and if not why they haven't followed the statutory procedure.

Because anyone can pay a PCN, but only the RK make reps, it seems some lease companies can't be bothered with the paperwork, and put clauses in their contracts saying they will pay (and charge an admin fee for doing so).

What does the lease say about PCNs? What is your company's policy?
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Re: Contravention -51 PCN from Harrow Council
« Reply #4 on: »
Morning john ,

Thanks for your reply .

PCN is under Leasing company as they are the RK . PCN was first received by Leasing company /RK and then it was passed over to my company which i work for then it was passed over to me to make a decision on either to pay up or Challenge .

probably You are right there that leasing comapany can't be bothered with paper work hence got passed over without following a proper procedure and have charged admin fee too .

Is there anything i can do at this stage? if i ask my company to go back to leasing company and ask them to send a letter about lessee it is a long shot and i will miss 14 days period .

Can i make a rep in behalf of any of them and get a letter from them to Authorise me to make a rep?

Just for a future ref even if leasing company follows due procedure and PCN gets re send under Company Name can i still make a Rep in behalf of comapny with comapny email address ?

To be honest my chances looks thin so once i get an expert advise if i have to would like to pay up before 14 days to avail discount.
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Re: Contravention -51 PCN from Harrow Council
« Reply #5 on: »
The bottom line is that you have no standing whatsoever in the matter, because the PCN is not in your name and address. You can, of course, pay it, but that's it. We see lots of cases like yours where the leasing company seem a load of dozy idiots when it comes to PCNs. You need to find out from them what their procedure is if you decide to fight the PCN. A letter of authority to act on their behalf would be necessary, so you would be acting for them, in effect.
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Re: Contravention -51 PCN from Harrow Council
« Reply #6 on: »
Thank you everyone for your time.

I should just take a chance by making a representation in behalf of leasing company and ask leasing company to provide Authority letter .

 
 @cp8759 can i still use   https://drive.google.com/file/d/14qWRhA5nPdlyaL5lcZJcgG9Y_K5X9sCJ (Mitigation consideration 2017 V1 ) in this case and so what should be my appeal grounds.


I have visited contravention site and taken some video and images which might help as i think inadequate signage can be used as one of the grounds of appeal .please see below link .



Thanks all. 
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Re: Contravention -51 PCN from Harrow Council
« Reply #7 on: »
@The Rock in the first instance you need to tell the leasing company to make a representation against the PCN on the grounds that they are a leasing company and liability should be transferred to you. The council will cancel the PCN issued to the leasing company and issue one in your name, and we can then deal with it without the leasing company getting in the way.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Contravention -51 PCN from Harrow Council
« Reply #8 on: »
Thank you cp8759 for your reply.

Unfortunately, Its nearly 14 days from the date of issue and i am not getting anywhere to get leasing company to make a rep as i have to go though a channel but will keep this in mind hope not but if i have to come for a help again meanwhile i was on council website to make a normal representation rather than just give up and pay up and noticed PCN has been put on hold does anybody know why it would be on hold ? 


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Re: Contravention -51 PCN from Harrow Council
« Reply #9 on: »
Just tell them that it is the law that they must transfer liability to you, the hirer.
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IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r
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  3. Contravention -51 PCN from Harrow Council