Author Topic: Contravention 31J - Piccadilly Junction with Berkeley Street.  (Read 4100 times)

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Contravention 31J - Piccadilly Junction with Berkeley Street.
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Hi all,
I’ve received a PCN for Contravention 31J (box junction) at Piccadilly / Berkeley Street. I was turning left in heavy traffic. My understanding up to now has always been that when turning left or right, it’s acceptable to pause briefly in a box junction if traffic ahead slows, as long as you’re not blocking cross traffic.

In this case, I entered the box while turning left, traffic then didn’t move and I was stopped for about 7 seconds, with part of my car in the box because there was nowhere else to stop. The CCTV shows I was turning and didn’t obstruct other vehicles.

I’m now learning that enforcement may be stricter than I thought, so I’d appreciate any advice on whether my understanding was wrong and whether there are any realistic grounds to challenge, or if paying at the discount is the sensible option.

@Hippocrates
Thanks in advance.

Tod
https://ibb.co/twYX6Wjw

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Re: Contravention 31J - Piccadilly Junction with Berkeley Street.
« Reply #1 on: »
Your understanding is wrong, unfortunately. The only time you can stop in a YBJ is if you enter to turn right, and cannot complete the turn because of oncoming traffic.
Their video shows a clear contravention, but the camera is 'on-high'. Please post a GSV link to the exact location. You have an appeal argument if buildings prevent you from seeing to the left of the YBJ.

Re: Contravention 31J - Piccadilly Junction with Berkeley Street.
« Reply #2 on: »
Hi, thanks for your reply.
Here is the exact location link to the junction so you can check it on GSV:

📍 https://maps.app.goo.gl/BTvM4w87vm5aVnuE6

Re: Contravention 31J - Piccadilly Junction with Berkeley Street.
« Reply #3 on: »
I think there may be a flaw in the wording of the PCN.

The law requires the PCN to state (amongst other things):

"(iii)that the penalty charge must be paid before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of the notice;

(iv)that if the penalty charge is paid before the end of the period of 14 days beginning with the date of the notice, the amount of the penalty charge will be reduced by the specified proportion;

(v)that, if the penalty charge is not paid before the end of the 28 day period, an increased charge may be payable;
"

Clearly, in that context, the 28 date period in part (v) is 28 days beginning with the date of the notice.

Your PCN states "If the penalty charge is not paid before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of service of the Notice, an increased charge of £240.00 (less money paid) may be payable".

Date of service is different to the date of the notice (presumed to be 2 business days different by law).  As such the PCN does not comply with the legal requirements and ought to be unenforceable.

@Hippocrates is the go to member when it comes to technical deficiencies - see what he thinks.

Re: Contravention 31J - Piccadilly Junction with Berkeley Street.
« Reply #4 on: »
Thanks for that — I’ve checked the PCN and it does state “28 days beginning with the date of this notice”, so it looks compliant on that point. Happy to hear if there are any other angles worth exploring.

Re: Contravention 31J - Piccadilly Junction with Berkeley Street.
« Reply #5 on: »
It clearly doesn't.

Reread the final sentence under the section "2 Challenge the PCN"
« Last Edit: January 25, 2026, 11:36:23 pm by MrChips »

Re: Contravention 31J - Piccadilly Junction with Berkeley Street.
« Reply #6 on: »
Fair point — my earlier comment was based on the payment wording. On re-reading, the PCN later refers to “28 days beginning with the date of service”, which appears inconsistent. That’s the issue I’m now looking at.

Re: Contravention 31J - Piccadilly Junction with Berkeley Street.
« Reply #7 on: »
There's plenty of references to various 28 day periods. The relevant one is the one linked to when they may increase the penalty charge to £240.

It would be good to get Hippocrates' input to check he agrees this is enough to get the PCN overturned as he is the true expert on PCN compliance.

Re: Contravention 31J - Piccadilly Junction with Berkeley Street.
« Reply #8 on: »
Understood — I’m focusing on the 28-day period linked to the issue of a charge certificate.
The PCN refers to both “28 days beginning with the date of this notice” and later “28 days beginning with the date of service”, which appears inconsistent.
I’d welcome Hippocrates’ view on whether that ambiguity is sufficient to render the PCN non-compliant.

Re: Contravention 31J - Piccadilly Junction with Berkeley Street.
« Reply #9 on: »
This law is an ass. Back later.
I REGRET THAT, FOR THE PRESENT, I AM UNABLE TO TAKE ON ANY MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. THIS IS FOR BOTH PERSONAL AND LEGAL REASONS. PLEASE DO NOT PM ME UNLESS YOU HAVE POSTED YOUR THREAD ON THE FORUM AND I WILL ATTEMPT TO GIVE ADVICE.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"

Re: Contravention 31J - Piccadilly Junction with Berkeley Street.
« Reply #10 on: »
https://cdn.imgpile.com/f/ajAqgYU_xl.png

Save this for later and take your own.

Dear Westminster

A motorist is entitled to know when and what to pay. There is a clear disconnect between your website and the law. Furthermore, the PCN fails to include mandatory information concerning the increase of the price as provided at Para. 4 (8 ) (v) of


https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/2003/3/section/4/enacted

(v)that, if the penalty charge is not paid before the end of the 28 day period, an increased charge may be payable.

Clearly, this refers to Para. 4 (8 ) (iii):

(iii)that the penalty charge must be paid before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of the notice;

It then goes on to conflate and misstate which action triggers the issue of a charge certificate.

Therefore, please cancel the PCN.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2026, 10:48:22 pm by Hippocrates »
I REGRET THAT, FOR THE PRESENT, I AM UNABLE TO TAKE ON ANY MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. THIS IS FOR BOTH PERSONAL AND LEGAL REASONS. PLEASE DO NOT PM ME UNLESS YOU HAVE POSTED YOUR THREAD ON THE FORUM AND I WILL ATTEMPT TO GIVE ADVICE.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"

Re: Contravention 31J - Piccadilly Junction with Berkeley Street.
« Reply #11 on: »
Thanks, understood.
I’ll take my own screenshot and keep it for later.

Re: Contravention 31J - Piccadilly Junction with Berkeley Street.
« Reply #12 on: »
Hi all,

A few days ago I received a notice of rejection from Westminster Parking Services regarding my recent appeal. I’m sharing it here to get some guidance on what to do next.
https://ibb.co/dsqptxyK
https://ibb.co/7x2zj7F3

Re: Contravention 31J - Piccadilly Junction with Berkeley Street.
« Reply #13 on: »
They deny the PCN is non-compliant, and emphasise tht the contravention is made out,  so to get a decision either way, you have to now register an appeal at London Tribunals. It's this or pay the discount.
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Re: Contravention 31J - Piccadilly Junction with Berkeley Street.
« Reply #14 on: »
@Hippocrates Westminster have now rejected my representations and maintain that the PCN is compliant. Would you recommend proceeding to London Tribunals on the compliance point?