3. CONNAUGHT STREET TFL stopping in red route loading bay
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CONNAUGHT STREET TFL stopping in red route loading bay
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Hi,

I was hoping someone could assist me with a PCN I received in London.

I mistakenly misread the signage and stopped in a loading bay for less than two minutes. When I returned, I explained this to the issuing officer, but he informed me that he couldn’t retract the ticket as he had already pressed print.

I’ve attached the images and was wondering if I could appeal this on the grounds of procedural impropriety. The officer handed me the printed fine rather than attaching it to the vehicle. Additionally, he spoke to me for around 4 minutes about personal matters, and, as shown by the timestamp and the brake lights in the images, he took the last picture while I was driving away.

I would appreciate any advice or guidance on this matter.

Thank you in advance.

Images as per PCN
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1PBmQF4Pfg-Ehbjvz0vF92by3PL0sH2MO/view?usp=drivesdk

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1WkWgvTX91qCxL9_JjSm8BORa2_EYu1c4/view?usp=drivesdk

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1sDrR9PFWKuGD1gv5-sO7_sWrDxUZcKMx/view?usp=drivesdk
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Re: CONNAUGHT STREET TFL stopping in red route loading bay
« Reply #1 on: »
Quote
I’ve attached the images and was wondering if I could appeal this on the grounds of procedural impropriety. The officer handed me the printed fine rather than attaching it to the vehicle.

Sorry, no. Service of the PCN can be effected by either handing the PCN to the driver, or attaching it to the vehicle. Chit-chat with the CEO is not grounds for procedural impropriety.

I get "access denied" when trying to open your attachments. You need to make them 'public'

Also please post a GSV link to the exact location.
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Re: CONNAUGHT STREET TFL stopping in red route loading bay
« Reply #2 on: »
I have made the pictures public.

This is the gsv link
https://maps.app.goo.gl/cWoz9b3EdYgjRfcD9?g_st=ic

Is there any ground to say the difference in the time is due to the CEO speaking to me about his neck pain.


Picture one is time stamped
16:30:14. The ceo then started asking me about neck pain and took the picture of the rear of vehicle as I drove off. Time stamped 16:34:15
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Re: CONNAUGHT STREET TFL stopping in red route loading bay
« Reply #3 on: »
Quote
Is there any ground to say the difference in the time is due to the CEO speaking to me about his neck pain.
Picture one is time stamped 16:30:14. The ceo then started asking me about neck pain and took the picture of the rear of vehicle as I drove off. Time stamped 16:34:15
No, I don't think there is any mileage there. Others may disagree so wait to see if anybody contradicts me.

However, there may be some mileage in the bay you parked in. It is preceded by double-red lines, then after it are the council bays. There may be errors in what is TfL enforcement domain and what is the councils, but we need somebody like our administrator to comment on this one.
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Re: CONNAUGHT STREET TFL stopping in red route loading bay
« Reply #4 on: »
OP, where's the PCN pl?

Remember, the exceptions to No Stopping applied 10-4pm, therefore just being there at 4.30 was a contravention, what you were doing was immaterial. By the same token, there was no need for the CEO to observe for any minimum period because all they needed to know was that a car was stopped when prohibited and that none of the time-limited exceptions could apply.

What did you misunderstand about the sign?
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Re: CONNAUGHT STREET TFL stopping in red route loading bay
« Reply #5 on: »
I had mixed up the times on signage.

Sorry what’s the PCN pl?
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Re: CONNAUGHT STREET TFL stopping in red route loading bay
« Reply #6 on: »
PCN = Penalty Charge Notice (what you called 'printed fine').
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Re: CONNAUGHT STREET TFL stopping in red route loading bay
« Reply #7 on: »
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Re: CONNAUGHT STREET TFL stopping in red route loading bay
« Reply #8 on: »
Is there any point appealing? Or should I just pay
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Re: CONNAUGHT STREET TFL stopping in red route loading bay
« Reply #9 on: »
TfL's normal practice is to re-offer the discount if unsuccessful reps are made within the 14-day discount period.

So make reps before 16th. These can be made online.

As far as I can see, you've not got a silver bullet defence so simply apologise that you misread the sign - exactly how with even hours I don't know, this'll be down to you. Are you the registered keeper with current DVLA details?
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Re: CONNAUGHT STREET TFL stopping in red route loading bay
« Reply #10 on: »
Thank you for your advice. I will try and write an appeal with a view I will most likely need to pay.

The vehicle is a leased from VWFS, then to my employer, then to me as a salary sacrifice.
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Re: CONNAUGHT STREET TFL stopping in red route loading bay
« Reply #11 on: »
Quote from: Toekn6 on September 12, 2024, 03:38:41 pm
Thank you for your advice. I will try and write an appeal with a view I will most likely need to pay.

The vehicle is a leased from VWFS, then to my employer, then to me as a salary sacrifice.
Who holds the V5C Registration Certificate for the vehicle ?
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Re: CONNAUGHT STREET TFL stopping in red route loading bay
« Reply #12 on: »
the leasing company are the legal owners and registered keepers of the vehicle. In my case VWFS.
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Re: CONNAUGHT STREET TFL stopping in red route loading bay
« Reply #13 on: »
Quote from: Toekn6 on September 12, 2024, 08:04:43 pm
the leasing company are the legal owners and registered keepers of the vehicle. In my case VWFS.
So whilst you can submit an informal challenge to the PCN, if they reject it you only have the option to pay.  If you don't pay, the council will serve a Notice to Owner on the keeper of the vehicle, as per the V5C. So you need to find out what VWFS do, when in receipt of a Notice to Owner. Do they just pay it and off-charge, or submit representations as a lease company, to get the PCN cancelled and a new one served to the lessee.
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Re: CONNAUGHT STREET TFL stopping in red route loading bay
« Reply #14 on: »
+1 @Incandescent

Toekn6, please dig out the lease agreement. What does the clause about PCNs say?
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