Free Traffic Legal Advice

Hello

I have received a PCN from Harrogate Borough Council for the contravention of being 'parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours.'

I have attached a photo of the online PCN details as well as three of the five uploaded photos. Firstly from research I believe that there should be a five minute observation period, the first photo was taken at 12.38 and the ticket issued at 12.41 which is less than 3 minutes, the ticket was handed to my hands as I left the property whilst he was issuing it.

For background I own the property I was parked at, there is a driveway to the side and parking to the front where you can see the van in one of the photos on the councils website, I have works on going and had been to drop items off for the workmen on site. I understand I was overhanging the footpath but was careful not to enter the road whilst unloading which is evident in the photos, to my mind I have not committed a contravention as I was parked largely on my own property and did not cross the yellow line whatsoever.

Two of the photos are nonsense close up angles of my car, I've uploaded one to show an example but not sure what the point in those being included on the PCN were.

I intend to appeal but would appreciate any further specialist assistance which may be of use for me

Thank you in advance!

[ Guests cannot view attachments ]

I don't live there so order materials to my personal residence and had taken these to unload, it was a range of lights, sockets and other electrical items

just to expand on what @stamf said.
the yellow line covers the road AND footway (pavement) upto the edge of your property so your car was very much in contravention.

I genuinely wasn't aware of that, thank you for the reply

Hi John,

Thank you for your response, yes I do have receipts including an order placed to collect at a DIY shop less than an hour before the alleged contravention.

Please see attached, unfortunately I've just seen he lists an observation period of 7 minutes on the ticket- I was genuinely dropping items off and as mentioned the officer knows I returned and stood waiting for him to issue the ticket which I took by hand

Best Wishes

[ Guests cannot view attachments ]

@Leedsgirl94 no we are not going to delete your thread, we follow a long-standing principle not to allow people to delete their threads just because they don't like the advice being given.

That being said there are two obvious questions that come to mind:

1) How far is the sign from your car? I can't see any photos where the sign and the car are in the same photo, so there may be an issue around inadequate signage

2) The observation period is irrelevant: how long did it actually take you to unload?

I can also check if the traffic order creates a restriction at this location, but please answer the above first. If you're lucky, the traffic order might turn out not to exist.

@Leedsgirl94 no we are not going to delete your thread, we follow a long-standing principle not to allow people to delete their threads just because they don't like the advice being given.

That being said there are two obvious questions that come to mind:

1) How far is the sign from your car? I can't see any photos where the sign and the car are in the same photo, so there may be an issue around inadequate signage

2) The observation period is irrelevant: how long did it actually take you to unload?

I can also check if the traffic order creates a restriction at this location, but please answer the above first. If you're lucky, the traffic order might turn out not to exist.

Requesting deletion has nothing to do with 'not liking advice.' The first two answers seemed conclusive that I was in the wrong so I didn't feel there was anything else required if I'm in the wrong then I'm wrong and that's the end of it I have to pay for my error, additionally the pictures are identifying and I did not redact the street name or consider my privacy when making the request.

To answer your q's 1) I have no idea, I have never read or noticed the signage and don't recognise the photo location 2) I didn't set a timer but it wasn't more than 10 minutes I took the boxes inside and explained what each was then left

To answer your q's 1) I have no idea, I have never read the signage and don't recognise the photo location

@Leedsgirl94 the location is here https://maps.app.goo.gl/LUEMPGvqomyj2mLe8 and the sign would seem to be here https://maps.app.goo.gl/gBTSdjG1LwX1Sw6s5 and there's another sign here https://maps.app.goo.gl/R2TwJFQcSrP7S5Yj9

The distance between the two signs is thus 250 feet or thereabouts:



It would be helpful to get a photo taken from where you car was facing the direction of each of the signs.

A challenge based on the signage seems at least arguable. Whether you're "in the wrong" is largely irrelevant, the purpose of this forum is to help you determine if you are legally liable or whether you can mount a successful appeal.

I'm also not sure what you mean by "The first two answers seemed conclusive that I was in the wrong", either you were loading or you weren't and if you were, then we just need to substantive that. Even if you weren't loading, you could still have a winning appeal based on the signage, but it makes it easier for us to help you if you tell us whether you really were or not. If you were you need to articulate what took so long.

The council has committed itself to reoffering the discount if you make a representation by midnight on 7 February, so it would be a bit silly to give up and pay now. The real issue now seems to be whether you are actually interested in fighting the PCN or not?

and had been to drop items off for the workmen on site. I understand I was overhanging the footpath but was careful not to enter the road whilst unloading which is evident in the photos, to my mind I have not committed a contravention as I was parked largely on my own property and did not cross the yellow line whatsoever.

At least you're better informed now about yellow lines, their meaning and extent of their restrictions e.g. physically being on the yellow line is not necessary for the contravention to occur.

IMO,
The law is that 'unloading*' is an exemption i.e. the restriction does not apply. But if a motorist claims this exemption then the burden of proof falls to them i.e. they have to prove** that their activities qualify for the exemption.

'had been to drop items off for the workmen on site' is insufficient. You have to establish that the goods were such that it was necessary to use a vehicle for their carriage, not just that it was convenient. In addition, that the vehicle was parked for no longer than necessary to unload* the items.

That the obs period was so short plays to your advantage. Had they observed for 15 minutes then you would be hard pushed to argue that you were parked for no longer than necessary given that the property was adjacent and didn't comprise 20 floors.

So, what were you unloading* and how could you prove this e.g. receipts, statements from the workmen etc?

*- unloading includes delivering which is actually whatyou were doing.
**- the standard of proof for an adjudicator is balance of probabilities. For some authorities it's that it was witnessed by God, and even then they'd probably want further corroboration!