Author Topic: City of London, Code 53 - Restriction on vehicles entering a pedestrian zone, Old Broad Street x2  (Read 3426 times)

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hirerspcn

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City of London - Code 53
Failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles entering a pedestrian zone
Old Broad Street: https://maps.app.goo.gl/zLMPUQqGt7DXEePGA

PCN 1: https://imgur.com/a/BSGYI2a
PCN 2: https://imgur.com/a/xnYpS14

I am renting this vehicle and the hire company transferred liability to me as stated in my hire agreement.

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I received 2 of the same PCN on different days, and they both show on the PCN portal.

I have used this street hundreds of times before to set down a passenger and was surprised to learn I received 2 PCNs at this location.

Looking at the video, it looks like the council changed the signs from Access only to 7am–7pm, and I was not aware of this. Even though I was not aware I do take responsibility, do I have any chance of winning an appeal?

This is the first set of letters I have received from the council, and it doesn't look like I can submit an informal appeal. On the portal I can only submit representations, is this normal?

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Incandescent

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YOu only get one go at submitting reps for postal PCNs. If they reject them, the next stage is London Tribunals.

The single sign on GSV has no days or times, so is 24x7.  However it allows access. This means access to properties along the street, but no further. So please tell us more, and a viable appeal argument may be available.

Is the sign on the GSV view of 2024 still the same ?

hirerspcn

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Does access include Liverpool street station? You have to turn right from Old broad street.

The underground station is on the corner of Old broad street and Liverpool Street.



Is the sign on the GSV view of 2024 still the same ?

I don’t understand your question.

Enceladus

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Does access include Liverpool street station? You have to turn right from Old broad street.

The underground station is on the corner of Old broad street and Liverpool Street.



Is the sign on the GSV view of 2024 still the same ?

I don’t understand your question.
You posted up a link to GSV from Oct 2024. This shows the sign on Old Broad Street. I believe @Incandescent is asking whether the GSV Oct 2024 sign is still there or has it changed?

I've had look at the video evidence. The videos suggest that the sign present on the dates of the alleged contraventions are different from GSV of Oct 2024.

However the videos are of too poor resolution to read properly. I believe there is now a time restriction that says something like 'Mon-??? 7am-7pm' (please don't rely on that) with three words underneath in a separate section which I can't make out.

hirerspcn

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I don't believe the sign is still there, and that is the latest update from GSV. I have used this street many times prior to these dates and have never received a PCN.


From the image/video, what I can tell is that it says:

Mon - Fri
7 am - 7 pm
Except local
Buses

stamfordman

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This extract from a refused private hire case may shed some light on this.

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Case reference
2250042014


The Notice of Rejection took into account the mitigating point about being able to collect passengers on Old Broad Street. It emphasised that the activity was only prohibited at the specific section of the street in which the vehicle was driven. The activity could be accomplished elsewhere on the street.

‘There are signs at the entrance to Old Broad Street junction with London Wall/Wormwood Street which indicate the prohibition of motor vehicles except for access and local buses only. We will not enforce against vehicles which drive past these signs to load/unload, drop off/pick up passengers.

However, further along at the junction of Old Broad Street and Broad Street Avenue there is a prohibition traffic sign in place that clearly advise motorists that between the hours of 7am and 7pm Monday to Friday this part of Old Broad Street is a pedestrianised zone and motor vehicles (except local buses) are not permitted to pass this sign. This is the reason the PCN was issued.’


hirerspcn

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OK so I totally misinterpreted this PCN. Today I drove past just to get some clarity, and the sign hasn't changed as I thought.

The sign that I thought was changed is the entrance to Old broad street coming in from London Wall or Wormwood street.

The sign that the PCN is referencing is just past Broad Street Avenue, and it looks like the sign has been there for at least 2 years, from this image I found on Google Maps.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/KCmt2iw3JhVudPaD9

This is confusing because I don't ever recall seeing this sign, and if you do go past the sign, you can't go any further ahead as the road markings tell you to turn right (onto Liverpool Street)

There are signs on London Wall (https://maps.app.goo.gl/7Y8nAdd76RASMpxq8) and Wormwood street (https://maps.app.goo.gl/u1dEjhCaDv8RZeCKA) saying Old broad street is local buses and access only, nothing about timed access.

How do I go about this from here?

hirerspcn

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Any guidance please

Incandescent

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Any guidance please
Essentially, it comes down to the question of - is the signage adequate to announce the restriction to the oncoming motorist ? This is the test councils have to meet to satisfy their obligation in Regulation 18 of the The Local Authorities’ Traffic Orders (Procedure) (England and Wales) Regulations 1996'
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1996/2489/regulation/18

So if you want to take CoL all the way to London Tribunals for an unbiased opinion, the onus would be on you to show that the signs CoL have erected are inadequate to convey the restriction. "Adequate" is subjective, so it comes down to what the adjudicator considers as adequate. Certainly the CoL will not give way on this as they keep your money if you cough-up.

So really it is your decision.  It's very difficult to give an opinion on chance of success without seeing the actual signs on GSV and any advance warning signs. You have drive the route so are in the best position. We see lots of people using satnav and missing signs that are there in front of them; is this you ?

hirerspcn

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So really it is your decision.  It's very difficult to give an opinion on chance of success without seeing the actual signs on GSV and any advance warning signs. You have drive the route so are in the best position. We see lots of people using satnav and missing signs that are there in front of them; is this you ?

Essentially, there is only 1 sign, the photo in my previous comment. The other day I drove past this road because there are roadworks on Liverpool street and can confirm there is only 1 sign on the left.

I can go there again and take some photos. If I do go there, what photos should I be taking? Just the sign or anything else?

Incandescent

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Look out for advance warning signs as well. If this is a bus route with frequent double-deckers, it is inadequate as the sign can be obscured by high-sided vehicles.

hirerspcn

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So this road is very busy with no parking available, the road is currently a one way as there are ongoing roadworks, so I wasn't able to take some photos.

What I know for a fact is that there are no advanced signs, there is only 1 sign on the left-hand side. The road prior to the sign is where loading vans are usually parked and in the 1 instance I went, the sign was blocked by the van as I was driving from the opposite direction of the sign.

Sign location: https://maps.app.goo.gl/1rJFd7FMCHexwi98A
Image of sign: https://maps.app.goo.gl/KCmt2iw3JhVudPaD9

Past the sign, if you were to go straight ahead, there is no entry as it is only for buses. You have to turn right onto Liverpool Street.

hirerspcn

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Incandescent

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@Incandescent
So far, you haven't told us your route that took you to the sign barring access. A left turn is typically when signs are missed, and sometimes a right turn.

hirerspcn

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I took a left from London Wall on to Old Broad St, straight past the sign then right onto Liverpool St.