3. City of Edinburgh Council - Penalty Charge Notice for parking on a "pavement"
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City of Edinburgh Council - Penalty Charge Notice for parking on a "pavement"
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About a month ago, I parked in an area next to a bridge which plenty of people on my street park on regularly, even following the recent amendment to the Transport (Scotland) Act 2019. This is why it was surprising to find that a parking ticket had been issued to me upon arriving back at my car.

I refuted this stating that the area where I was parked is not defined as a pavement according to the Statutory List of Public Roads. You can see where I was parked in the images attached.


The City of Edinburgh Council have gotten back to me having considered my explanation but will not cancel the parking ticket under these circumstances. They said:

"The parking ticket was issued because the vehicle was parked on the pavement (footway or footpath), contrary to the Transport (Scotland) Act 2019."

Given the fact that this area is not highlighted as a pavement on their map and there is another kerb marking where one area ends and the other starts do CEC have the power to enforce this? It is quite clear that where I was parked would not cause an issue to pedestrians.

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Re: City of Edinburgh Council - Penalty Charge Notice for parking on a "pavement"
« Reply #1 on: »
Best to read this then.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/asp/2019/17/part/6/enacted
Then you'll need to read: -
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1984/54/section/151

A quick look tells me you're on a loser, but read it yourself.
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Re: City of Edinburgh Council - Penalty Charge Notice for parking on a "pavement"
« Reply #2 on: »
Quote from: Incandescent on April 24, 2024, 11:33:12 am
Best to read this then.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/asp/2019/17/part/6/enacted
Then you'll need to read: -
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1984/54/section/151

A quick look tells me you're on a loser, but read it yourself.

What was it that stood out in the legislation that makes you think I don't have much chance?
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Re: City of Edinburgh Council - Penalty Charge Notice for parking on a "pavement"
« Reply #3 on: »
2019 Act
Quote
“pavement” means a footpath or footway.
1984 Act
Quote
(2)For the purpose of this Act, where over a road the public right of passage referred to in the definition of “road” in subsection (1) above—
(a)is by foot only, the road is—
(i)where it is associated with a carriageway, a “footway”; and
(ii)where it is not so associated, a “footpath”;
(b)is by pedal cycle only, or by pedal cycle and foot only, the road is a “cycle track”;
(c)includes such a right by vehicle, other than a right by pedal cycle only, the road is a “carriageway”.
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Re: City of Edinburgh Council - Penalty Charge Notice for parking on a "pavement"
« Reply #4 on: »
Quote from: Incandescent on April 24, 2024, 02:42:14 pm
2019 Act
Quote
“pavement” means a footpath or footway.
1984 Act
Quote
(2)For the purpose of this Act, where over a road the public right of passage referred to in the definition of “road” in subsection (1) above—
(a)is by foot only, the road is—
(i)where it is associated with a carriageway, a “footway”; and
(ii)where it is not so associated, a “footpath”;
(b)is by pedal cycle only, or by pedal cycle and foot only, the road is a “cycle track”;
(c)includes such a right by vehicle, other than a right by pedal cycle only, the road is a “carriageway”.

Right, but it's still not the jurisdiction of the council to serve a fine if the land I was parked on does not belong to them? Or am I mistaken?
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Re: City of Edinburgh Council - Penalty Charge Notice for parking on a "pavement"
« Reply #5 on: »
Quote from: cyoung17 on April 25, 2024, 04:33:24 pm
Right, but it's still not the jurisdiction of the council to serve a fine if the land I was parked on does not belong to them? Or am I mistaken?

How do you know it is not their land? Who owns it?
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Re: City of Edinburgh Council - Penalty Charge Notice for parking on a "pavement"
« Reply #6 on: »
It doesn't matter who owns it, the public are allowed to pass freely over it so it is enforceable.  However, you can test the matter at the Scottish adjudicator.
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Re: City of Edinburgh Council - Penalty Charge Notice for parking on a "pavement"
« Reply #7 on: »
Quote from: sparxy on April 25, 2024, 05:20:17 pm
Quote from: cyoung17 on April 25, 2024, 04:33:24 pm
Right, but it's still not the jurisdiction of the council to serve a fine if the land I was parked on does not belong to them? Or am I mistaken?

How do you know it is not their land? Who owns it?

I don't know who owns it but if you look at the second image I attached to my original post, anything purple is maintained by the council. The area where I parked is not.
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Re: City of Edinburgh Council - Penalty Charge Notice for parking on a "pavement"
« Reply #8 on: »
It's not who maintains the area, it's whether the public have free and unhindered access.

Anyway, why not test the matter at the Scottish adjudicator.
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Re: City of Edinburgh Council - Penalty Charge Notice for parking on a "pavement"
« Reply #9 on: »
@cyoung17 please read the guidance here and post all the required documents, as things stand we've been given nothing to work with.

@Incandescent the law in Scotland is sometimes different, see The City of Edinburgh Council v Chris Hogan (UTS/AP/23/0002, 18 August 2023).
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: City of Edinburgh Council - Penalty Charge Notice for parking on a "pavement"
« Reply #10 on: »
Quote from: cp8759 on April 28, 2024, 11:00:54 pm
@cyoung17 please read the guidance here and post all the required documents, as things stand we've been given nothing to work with.

@Incandescent the law in Scotland is sometimes different, see The City of Edinburgh Council v Chris Hogan (UTS/AP/23/0002, 18 August 2023).
Yes, indeed ! It can catch one out.

( I'm assuming the Upper Tribunal is their equivalent of judicial review.)
Actually, no, as apparently one can then go on to seek permission to appeal to the Court of Session !
« Last Edit: April 28, 2024, 11:48:45 pm by Incandescent »
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Re: City of Edinburgh Council - Penalty Charge Notice for parking on a "pavement"
« Reply #11 on: »
Quote from: cp8759 on April 28, 2024, 11:00:54 pm
@cyoung17 please read the guidance here and post all the required documents, as things stand we've been given nothing to work with.

@Incandescent the law in Scotland is sometimes different, see The City of Edinburgh Council v Chris Hogan (UTS/AP/23/0002, 18 August 2023).

Hi @cp8759

Apologies, didn't see this post guide. Here you are:

https://imgur.com/a/9tCYTvL

https://maps.app.goo.gl/5UA81CMK3nqCPcoW9
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Re: City of Edinburgh Council - Penalty Charge Notice for parking on a "pavement"
« Reply #12 on: »
@cyoung17 give us a link to their map please.

I'm not at all convinced that bit of land is part of a road at all, it doesn't go anyway so it's not a way as far as I can see.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: City of Edinburgh Council - Penalty Charge Notice for parking on a "pavement"
« Reply #13 on: »
Quote from: cp8759 on May 01, 2024, 01:02:27 am
@cyoung17 give us a link to their map please.

I'm not at all convinced that bit of land is part of a road at all, it doesn't go anyway so it's not a way as far as I can see.

@cp8759 Indeed, it doesn't go anywhere.

Here is the map https://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/roads-pavements/statutory-list-public-roads
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Re: City of Edinburgh Council - Penalty Charge Notice for parking on a "pavement"
« Reply #14 on: »
Here you go:

Dear City of Edinburgh Council,

I challenge liability for this penalty charge on the ground that my car was not parked on a road. A road is defined by section 151 of the Roads (Scotland) Act 1984 as follows:

“road” means, subject to subsection (3) below, any way (other than a waterway) over which there is a public right of passage (by whatever means and whether subject to a toll or not) and includes the road’s verge, and any bridge (whether permanent or temporary) over which, or tunnel through which, the road passes; and any reference to a road includes a part thereof;

The land where my vehicle was parked is roughly square and it does not lead anywhere, being surrounded on three sides by physical barriers. I also note the land in question is not part of the adopted highway according to your map at https://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/roads-pavements/statutory-list-public-roads

As there is no right of passage over this land from one place to another, the land does not form part of any road or highway, and as such the contravention cannot have occurred.

Yours faithfully,

Send this online and keep a screenshot of the confirmation page.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2024, 02:13:38 pm by cp8759 »
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
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