3. Charge Certificate but no NOR (Greenwich)
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Charge Certificate but no NOR (Greenwich)
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Originally posted over PePiPoo and advice given to wait for order of recovery which is yet to receive.

Hi all,

PCN is for Yellow Box Junction in Plumstead Common/Bloomfield Road, Greenwich. I made a small representation not hoping much but at least knowing that there'll be discount when it gets rejected. Nothing heard and thought as usual Council taking their time and out of nowhere yesterday received Charge Certificate. I've gone through few threads and general advice is to wait for Order of Recovery and file in Statutory Declaration.

IMO it's a dirty tactics from Council. They may have realised that they couldn't serve NOR within 56 days and instead issued CC. Now I don't have benefit of discounted amount and PITA dealing with extra paperworks.

Anyway before proceeding further and detailing the case for possible hearing, should I contact council (email) just to enquire about what happened to NOR?


Timeline:

1) PCN received. Date of Notice 1st June 2023.
2) PCN contravention: 31J Entering and Stopping in YBJ @ Plumstead Common Road/Bloomfield Rd (Greenwich). Making right turn which I thought are allowed and the very purpose of the YBJ but I misunderstood the regulations. Date of contravention : 20th May 2023.
3) Made representation on 13th June 2023 online and confirmation email received.
4) Charge Certificate received on 11th Aug 2023. Date on CC: 10th Aug 2023.


Thanking You.
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Re: Charge Certificate but no NOR (Greenwich)
« Reply #1 on: »
Was
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=151033

You could try
1) checking the online status of the PCN on the Greenwich site
2) Ringing TEC to see if debt has been registered.
    0300 123 1059

See
https://www.find-court-tribunal.service.gov.uk/courts/traffic-enforcement-centre-tec
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Re: Charge Certificate but no NOR (Greenwich)
« Reply #2 on: »
Thanks. Council site showing outstanding CC charge and will call TEC tomorrow morning.
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Re: Charge Certificate but no NOR (Greenwich)
« Reply #3 on: »
AFAIK, only the Traffic Management Act 2004 requires a reply to formal reps within 56 days
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Re: Charge Certificate but no NOR (Greenwich)
« Reply #4 on: »
This lot do have staffing issues - according to them.
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IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r
Re: Charge Certificate but no NOR (Greenwich)
« Reply #5 on: »
Quote from: ghostivv on September 13, 2023, 05:19:22 pm
Thanks. Council site showing outstanding CC charge and will call TEC tomorrow morning.
Well, what did they say?
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Charge Certificate but no NOR (Greenwich)
« Reply #6 on: »
sorry for late reply. Tried calling few days different times and gave up waiting more than half hr. Finally got round to someone today while reading few threads here and the PCN is not registered yet at TEC.
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Re: Charge Certificate but no NOR (Greenwich)
« Reply #7 on: »
I would just keep checking the amount due on the council website once a week or so.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
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Re: Charge Certificate but no NOR (Greenwich)
« Reply #8 on: »
Called again this morning and debt is still not registered. Coming to 3 months since the receipt of CC. Council site showing outstanding £195.
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Re: Charge Certificate but no NOR (Greenwich)
« Reply #9 on: »
Make sure all the documents have the exact location. There are 2 YBJs on Plumstead Common Road (jct Burrage Rd & jct Bloomfield Rd) - if it just says Plumstead Common Road (as has happened to others) it's surely contestable.
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Re: Charge Certificate but no NOR (Greenwich)
« Reply #10 on: »
First lets get the CC revoked then deal with the contravention but at this rate the council will fall over into the realm of undue delay in registering the CC anyway. This does not mean that you can do anything other than comply with the requirement to serve a SD to TEC
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Re: Charge Certificate but no NOR (Greenwich)
« Reply #11 on: »
Once it gets to six months from the date of service of the charge certificate, we can use the formal complaints point to force their hand.

In theory it might be best to wait 12 months as you could then argue that their decision to contest the appeal is wholly unreasonable, but you might not want to wait that long.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
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Re: Charge Certificate but no NOR (Greenwich)
« Reply #12 on: »
Called today and still not yet registered by council. 14 months from date of PCN and one more month for CC anniversary. Council site showing outstanding of £195.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2024, 10:46:10 am by ghostivv »
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Re: Charge Certificate but no NOR (Greenwich)
« Reply #13 on: »
You can make a complaint about the lack of progress here: https://www.royalgreenwich.gov.uk/info/200161/complaints/548/complaints_about_the_royal_borough_of_greenwich

You must make it clear that you are not complaining about the PCN or asking for the PCN to be cancelled, your complaint must make it clear that you are only complaining about the lack of progress and the council's failure to follow the next step in the statutory process.

By all means post a draft here first if you'd like.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
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Re: Charge Certificate but no NOR (Greenwich)
« Reply #14 on: »
It got cancelled  ;D . Complained as suggested by CP and received letter last week saying that the PCN is issued correctly but due to administrative error, decided to cancel the PCN.


Edit: Letter
« Last Edit: September 12, 2024, 10:24:49 am by ghostivv »
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  3. Charge Certificate but no NOR (Greenwich)