Free Traffic Legal Advice

A PCN contravention for driving in a bus lane was issued to Me. The contravention date was May 2023. A letter was sent in October 2024 from CDER issuing a letter of enforcement.

The amount is £115 for the fine and a CDER compliance fee of £75

This letter was sent to my mother in laws house which is where I was staying for a bit last year but I’ve lived somewhere else all this year. So I haven’t seen any communication until just now when my wife went to her mums house to get something.

I don’t see any other letters or emails
From the council asking for payment or showing the CCTV contravention, only have this Bailiff letter which was issued October 24th giving me a deadline to pay 6th November.

Not sure what’s happened here but what are my steps out of this before paying anyone anything. I want to first ascertain what the contravention was and to see proof of it, then I guess I want to mention that I have not seen any correspondence by the council, obviously if I had seen it I would not have ignored it.

Thanks

What address is on the V5C logbook - that's where the PCN went.

None of which changes the underlying fundamentals of the penalty charge which you've yet to post.

You're in the frame presumably because you were the registered keeper of the vehicle concerned.

So I haven’t seen any communication until just now when my wife went to her mums house to get something.

In which case you need to answer the question as per stamfordman's post: what was the address held on the DVLA database for the keeper in May 2023?

In addition, when did you live there and if you didn't why did you declare this as your address for DVLA purposes?

Hi All

Thanks for your responses. This is my first time in the forum, it is great to see such a constructive community here.

The address on the V5C was actually an even older London address I had which I lived in early 2023. I forgot to change my V5C when moving address (which I have now done). I appreciate this is not ideal and just makes the situation more confusing. Basically between my last official London address and my current residence, I was waiting for houses to complete and so was moving around between in laws and my parents house with my wife so the address situation is a bit all over the place.

The reason I potentially have had the letter sent to my mother in laws address is that I had another PCN in the same area (Tunbridge Wells), so possibly the council had the address details for the reg plate from a previous submission I did where I may have been staying with my mother and thus used her address. Otherwise, there is no way they would know that address as my V5C does not have it. Although I have received a CDER letter, I do not have ANY correspondence from the council itself abot the initial contravention asking for payment. I have no idea where these letters are or where they are sent. When they didn't hear anything from me on the current PCN, they likely forwarded it to CDER with the same address I used on a previous submission (just a hypothesis).

I know it was advised not to do this, but I did contact the council. If it has made the situation worse then so be it, I will just clear the current charge. I have told the council that letters have not been received and as such, I am happy to clear the original charge with the council on the misunderstanding explained.

CDER have given me a deadline of 6am on the 6th November to respond to them. The email below to council was sent yesterday, and obviously they were closed so I would look to have a call with them tomorrow morning.

Letter below:

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Dear Tunbridge Wells Borough Council,

I am writing to request your assistance regarding a Penalty Charge Notice issued for a bus lane contravention on 6th May 2023, associated with my vehicle registration number *****.

At the time of the incident, I was temporarily residing with my mother-in-law at ****, Tunbridge Wells. I have since relocated to a new residence in Mayfield at the beginning of 2024 and have not returned to my mother-in-law’s house. Consequently, I was not aware of any correspondence regarding this fine, as I did not receive any notices sent to the *** address.

Recently, my wife found a letter from CDER Group, dated 24th October 2024, indicating a total outstanding amount of £189. This amount includes what I understand to be the original fine of £114 as well as an additional £75 enforcement fee. However, I am unclear if £114 is the initial amount or if it has been adjusted over time due to missed deadlines from prior correspondence.

I would like to confirm the original amount of the penalty at the time of the contravention on 6th May 2023. Given that I missed the initial notices due to the change of address, I am kindly requesting if I could be permitted to pay this original contravention amount only, without the added enforcement fee. Had I been aware of the initial correspondence from the council, I would have paid promptly to avoid any escalation.

Please let me know if there are further steps I need to take to resolve this situation and settle this matter as soon as possible.

Thank you for your understanding and consideration.

Wait for others to comment but the usual advice is to pay the bailiffs to prevent their fees rocketing and then concentrate on exploring whether or not there are avenues for cancellation,

Dear joebloggs90,

If you are dealing with enforcement agencies like CDER and facing unexpected charges due to address discrepancies, legal protections under the Tribunals, Courts and Enforcement Act 2007 (TCEA 2007) may assist, particularly where enforcement procedures have not been followed correctly due to these errors.

Paragraph 66 of Schedule 12 of TCEA 2007 provides remedies for improper enforcement. While often seen as benefiting debtors, case law shows broader applicability. For instance, in Goodsell v Mayhew (1950), the court found that inaccuracies in address records could invalidate enforcement actions and fees. Similarly, Ex parte McArdle (1957) concluded that enforcement actions could be nullified if documents were not sent to the correct address.

Requesting full documentation from the enforcement agency ensures transparency and compliance under TCEA 2007. Agencies must provide clear evidence of the outstanding balance and justify any additional fees. This documentation helps verify adherence to statutory procedures, and failure to provide accurate records may reveal procedural deficiencies that could challenge the enforcement action.

Outlined below are several steps that may assist in addressing this situation:

Contact the Traffic Enforcement Centre (TEC): You may also contact the Traffic Enforcement Centre (TEC). During the security check, provide your mother's postcode. Successfully passing the security check will demonstrate that the warrant does not reflect your current address, rendering the warrant "defective" and thereby invalidating any enforcement action undertaken by CDER at your current address.

Request Full Documentation: Contact the enforcement agency and request complete documentation to verify the basis of their fees and the outstanding balance. This will ensure transparency and provide you with the necessary information to ascertain whether all procedural requirements have been met.

Contact the Council Directly: Engage with the council and propose settling the original fine if you missed prior notices due to address discrepancies. Emphasise that you would have responded in a timely manner had you received the original correspondence, underscoring your intent to resolve the matter responsibly.

Formal Complaint: Should the enforcement agency refuse to suspend their actions, consider filing a formal complaint. In doing so, cite TCEA 2007 as well as the relevant case law, such as Goodsell v Mayhew and Ex parte McArdle. This legal context can bolster your position, particularly if the enforcement agency's failure to adhere to procedural requirements is linked to incorrect address records.

Avoid Direct Payments to CDER: You mustn't make any direct payments to CDER. If you do so, they may contend that the payment was made voluntarily, which could undermine any subsequent claim for a refund. Instead, you must argue that any funds taken were done so under duress, specifically under the threat of removal of goods pursuant to a defective instrument.

FYI, I have heard back from the council with below. They want me to fill out a TE9 form and a witness statement to explain the situation and submit it to tribunal. Once tribunal receive they will pause Bailiffs and Bailiffs will notify council too, until a decision is made.

I will have to just play the sorry card and explain the address issue. If there are any comments about how I should write this letter please do send them asap as I have a deadline of tomorrow morning 6am to pay bailiff.

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Traffic Management Act 2004
Thank you for contacting us.
Your case is out of our hands: the Debt Recovery Agent now have a warrant to recover the money from you.
We sent you a Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) because our camera evidence shows your vehicle in Mount
Pleasant Road bus lane/gate at a time when only buses are allowed there. All this evidence is available to view
online.

If you wish to pay or contact someone, contact the Debt Recovery Agent. They are: Mid Kent Enforcement
Services (MKES) enquiries@midkentenforcement.co.uk or call 01622 602599.
You have stated you didn’t receive the original letters and weren’t aware that these had been issued but have
now been contacted by our enforcement agents. I can confirm DVLA provided us your address which all the
required statutory documents were sent too.

Without payment or an appeal, the case has progressed to the debt recovery stage. Our debt recovery agents
appear to have traced and contacted you. They apply additional charges to the original penalty.
The only advice we can give is to visit the Traffic Enforcement Centre (TEC) website (detailed below) and
complete a Witness Statement (Form TE9).

https://www.gov.uk/appeal-against-a-penalty-charge-notice/court-order
The section you need to go to is: “How to challenge”, and select: “a moving traffic contravention outside of
London if your fine was issued on or after 1 June 2022 - use form TE9”. Please show evidence that you have
contact TEC to the enforcement agent.

Once TEC receives the TE9, they will ask us to put the case on hold and issue a Revoking Order (RO). When
we receive the RO, we will re-issue the NtO to the contact details you provided in the TE9. At that point, the
PCN will revert to the appeals stage and charge level (£70), and you can either pay the PCN or submit a
formal challenge.

URGENT ADVICE NEEDED ASAP - PLEASE HELP

Following on from the above thread, I was given a deadline of 6th November to pay CDER. I sent traffic tribunal a TE9 AND TE7 prior to the deadline date and then also sent CDER group an email telling them that I acknowledge their letter and deadline however I have taken action to speak to tribunal regarding the address mishap.

Today, 9th nov, a bailiff went to my mother in laws house and left a giant red paper saying the bill was now £460 and that they would clamp and tow the car if found. They gave me a mobile number to ring.

I freaked out and called the number and spoke to the enforcement agent this evening. This was probably a bad idea but I was pretty anxious.

I mentioned the whole situation from the beginning and that I did not live at the address you are searching and that I have contacted tribunals etc within the deadline so why are you looking for me. 

I mentioned the logbook was incorrectly addressed to London which is the cause of the issue. The bailiff said he understood and believed that I would likely get a refund when TEC read the statement.

HOWEVER, he has said DESPITE the above, that the car is still on an active warrant and if found it will be clamped and likely towed until tribunal come back which could be weeks.

The bailiff now also nows that my V5C is logged to the correct home address, meaning they can come to my actual house any time and grab the car on my drive.

I mentioned I wanted to speak to council on Monday, as I had been advised never to pay CDER group in advance and that getting monies back is hard.

He said "everyone says that" but in reality if you do pay and your Tribunal comes back positive, you will get refunded anyway by the council, if my case is strong, which I believe it is.

He seemed to be nice but I felt like he was trying to guilt trip me into paying with reverse psychology and now I am highly paranoid.

He did assure me that I can get refunded on this amount of council chooses to cancel this after the tribunal respond.

I dont know what to do now. Do I wait until Monday to speak to council or do I just pay this, get my car off their register, and then carry on with my case and see if I can get refunded. I am worried I will wake up tomorrow and go to my drive and the car is gone.

Please advise asap.

Thanks in advance.