Author Topic: Cardiff, (31) in a box junction when prohibited, Moria Terrace junc/with Adam street, windsor Rd and Fitzalan Rd  (Read 1205 times)

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Hey all! Hope everyone is having a great day.

Notice Number: QC86879837
Vehicle Registration: LR70LBJ

I got a PCN stating that I stopped in a yellow box. I had a green light and saw traffic moving and believed the traffic would flow and give me enough space during the green light duration, I believe the traffic moved on and I was out of the box. However I still got penalised and got sent a PCN.

Location: https://maps.app.goo.gl/cQe66urD8frHTyxy7
Below is the PCN letter sent to me:





Images:




Video:

Any help at all will be greatly appreciated

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I've looked at the video - it doesn't show your entry into the box junction so there's actually no evidence of an offence (by the time you come into view of the camera, you are already well inside it). Paraphrasing the law, it's to punish bad judgement at the point of entering the box such that you enter and end up getting stuck behind a stationary vehicle so that you cannot exit.  A video which doesn't show when you enter the box cannot hope to prove this.

The end of the box junction is also a long way away from the camera and I'd argue it's not very clear where you stopped relative to the edge of the box junction, or how much space there was in front of you (could you have moved further forward to exit the box completely, in which case you could exit and your judgement to enter the box was correct)?

What Mr Chips said also the right tun exemption applies as you were behind another vehicle waiting to complete a right turn

Thanks for the replies guys, how would I go about composing a response?

I'm happy to draft something for you

Thank you Mr Chips, I appreciate it.

Suggested text.  You've got plenty of time so suggest you give others a chance to review and suggest amendments.  When you do send, be sure to keep a copy of your final text and a confirmation of submission or screen shot.  It's highly likely Cardiff will reject this as in their mind their camera is perfect and any stop in the box must be punished whether their camera shows a contravention or not!  So, if/when they reject come back here with a copy of the rejection notice and we'll take it from there...

Dear Cardiff County Council

Re PCN QC86879837

I recently received the above PCN in respect of entering and stopping in a box junction when prohibited.  I have reviewed the evidence provided, in particular the video evidence, and wish to submit representations on the grounds that the contravention did not occur.

First and foremost, the video evidence supplied does not capture the moment my car enters the box junction as the camera is focussed on the centre of the box junction and the entry point is somewhere out of view of the camera.  As such there is no way of knowing precisely when entry occurred nor what traffic conditions were at this point.  Consequently, as the contravention centres around entering a box junction when prohibited, the evidence does not demonstrate that a contravention has actually occurred at all.

In addition, the box junction is large and the camera elevation is insufficient to show the far end of the box junction in any detail.  The relevant legislation states that "a person must not cause a vehicle to enter the box junction so that the vehicle has to stop [my emphasis] within the box junction due to the presence of stationary vehicles". Based on the very poor resolution of the video at the far end of the box where my vehicle stopped, I find it is impossible to ascertain how much of my vehicle was in the box junction and, crucially, how much space there was to the car in front of mine.  As a contravention only occurs in the event my vehicle 'has to stop' then if there was sufficient space in front to allow my vehicle to exit fully then a contravention has not occurred.  The video is not sufficiently clear to demonstrate this point.

Finally, there is a specific exemption set out for vehicles which enter the box for the purpose of turning right and stop within the box junction for so long as the vehicle is prevented from completing the right turn by another vehicle which is stationary whilst waiting to complete a right turn.  As can be seen in the video, my vehicle is entering the box junction for the purpose or turning right and stops behind another vehicle which also seems to be waiting to complete the same right turn.  As such my vehicle is in scope of the exemption.

For all these reasons, I therefore look forward to confirmation that this PCN has been cancelled.

Yours faithfully,




Thanks so much, I will wait around for a bit to see other responses but thank you again!

My Father also just received a yellow box PCN which came in the mail today too! So I will be posting another post about his case soon.

Bring it on! But start a different thread for that one please.

Just recently got my notice of rejection. Any advice what to do next will be greatly appreciated.




Hey FTLA forum! Any legal advice on my situation will greatly be appreciated :)

The reply ignores or misstates the law as it is written so it.s up to you. If you want to continue I will be happy to represent you but can offer no guarantees, some adjudicators fly there own way in making decisions 

Thanks for the reply @Pastmybest. Please do help me to make a representation, as I feel this PCN was unfair as the video does not show the start of the YBJ, and I had enough room to go forward to get out of the yellow box.