Free Traffic Legal Advice

So I have recently moved to a new house which has meant that my daily school runs to pick my son up have changed, and I have been following Google maps. I was well aware of pedestrianised zones in my old neighbourhood (which also had very clear signage) but following Google maps in an unfamiliar area has landed me a PCN for 'failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles entering a pedestrian zone' which is enforced during school hours between 2-4pm.


Now I have no issue with owning up and paying this ticket, the only trouble is I have taken this route around 7-8 times over the last two weeks. Now I fear the worst i.e. 8 tickets x £65 headed my way so I have to contest. My primary issue is that the sign is located right while exiting a roundabout. Should restrictions on exits not be indicated before entering a roundabout, because my focus while entering a roundabout is on traffic from the right rather than reading time restrictions. By the time you exit this roundabout you are literally under the sign with no overhead visibility and it is too late at that point already even if you turn around. You can see from the picture another car having spotted the sign late and making a dangerous turn in the road. Can this be a valid defence? Photo here:


https://imgur.com/gallery/1QJz5Wg


I am also very annoyed at the fact that Google maps can't display basic stuff such as this, this restriction came into force a year ago and the signs are still not visible on street view. Attaching a layout of signage in the area along with the direction of my approach.

Location of approach: https://maps.app.goo.gl/e8rFVgmnVUKzSJMz5

[ Guests cannot view attachments ]

Hi, thanks for the reply and apologies for missing the guidelines. Have updated the title of my post and also attaching my approach, there are no warning signs on approach to roundabout. Copy of PCN attached too. There are signs when coming from the left or right to this street but none from my approach.



[ Guests cannot view attachments ]

For PCNs dated after PCN 1, but before the date you received PCN 1,  can be appealed on no knowledge of the contravention until the first PCN arrived. All PCNs can be appealed on inadequate signage.  The council acknowledge that the restriction signs cannot be seen for turns off Elmwood Road, but an approach on Lodge Road going north is also a turn, and there have to be doubts as to the signs visibility before it is too late.

So you have two arguments to submit on your reps to the council as above.  Don't expect them to roll-over and cancel, but do post their response here when you get it.

Video for CR20178336:



Video for CR20214247:



Video for CR20228092:



I'm not sure what arguments can be made about the visibility of the signage, it seems you approached them head-on and must have just failed to notice them.

I would suggest sending a single representation via email to pcn@croydon.gov.uk listing all right PCNs, this way for any that they miss when issuing the rejections you have an open-and-shut case of failure to consider, but don't miss the 28 day deadline to make representations.

It's advisable to post a draft on here first.

@rizlagunner well I can see the PCNs are back at £65, which indicates that a notice of rejection must have been issued with an extended offer of the discount.

Please show us the notices of rejection, you never know they might have messed up the paperwork.

@cp8759 It appears to be head on approach but it isn't actually, if you look at the map of the intersection you can see that it is actually a turn into the road, and typically on a roundabout attention is not up ahead towards the exit but towards the right before entering.

@rizlagunner either you pay the discounted penalty of £65, or you appeal to the tribunal against the full amount. There is no option to appeal to the tribunal at the £65 rate, the council offers the 50% discount as an incentive because that saves them the hassle of having to fight a tribunal appeal.

So it's not as if you can appeal within 14 days and still pay £65 if you lose.

I don't think an argument against the adequacy of the signage will succeed in this instance and I wouldn't want you to throw good money after bad, but if you want to appeal regardless of the risks we will do our best to help you anyway. Please let us know how you'd like to proceed.

In a case where PCNs dated after the first one, and dated before the date of receipt of the first PCN, but only received after receipt of the first PCN, these can be argued on the basis of not knowing an offence had been committed until the first PCN arrive in the post.

One would normally submit a single representation with a list of the PCNs, and a request to cancel, pointing out the first PCN (give number) has been paid.
Of course the council may not give way, but it is well worth trying. Many councils do give way, so don't be put off.  Would this argument win at adjudication ? It might and has done in the past, but its not a slam-dunk argument, I'm afraid.