Author Topic: Camden - Using a route restricted to certain vehicles; local buses & cycles only - URGENT  (Read 10468 times)

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Hello,

I've left this PCN a bit late due and I have to submit my representation tomorrow and your expert help would be much appreciated.

On 21 May 2025 as it was a nice day I decided to scoot to my hospital appointment off Tottenham Court Road W1.
From previous trips by bus I knew it had been made into a two way road but last time I rode along it it was still one way (10-15 years ago).

After my appointment I turned right into Tottenham Court Road from Torrington Place and I was behind a transit van positioned on it's offside rear - my usual position for city traffic riding as I filter a lot. After the turn, the van's left indicator came on, but ahead I could see the traffic light on the right was red and I decided no point to filter past.
When the light turned green we moved off and as the van began its left turn, my attention was drawn to the two circular side plates (where you would normally see prohibition plates) on the traffic light - I thought I could see some blue in the top one like a mandatory instruction (arrow) - but I concluded it must be covered up rather than faded and I continued straight ahead. Google streetview; (https://maps.app.goo.gl/tRsQrg5pwRR59qFY9)



The PCN issue date is 27 MAY 2025 and was received on 2 JUN 2025 - My representation deadline is tomorrow 10 JUN 2025 I believe(?).

PCN;
Page 1


Page 2



Please PM if you would like to see the video but it only starts at the point the van is already turning into Howland Street - doesn't show where I was waiting behind it when the light was red.

A friend works in the area kindly sent me a picture of the Tottenham Court Road/Howland Street junction from the pavement.
You can see the two traffic lights at that junction have different, confusing/conflicting information on them - due to my riding position behind the van, I was only looking at the traffic light ahead on the right in clear view.
The one nearest the junction shows a blue left turn arrow and a 'bus gate' type sign.
But the other one on the right just has the two white inserts/covers;


Would I be correct in thinking that outside of the restricted bus gate hours, every vehicle driving past this traffic light is committing a 'failing to drive in the direction shown by an arrow on a blue sign' offense - unless that blue left turn arrow turns off or covers up?

I would appreciate your help if you could check the PCN is correct and ok and the best way for me to appeal this.

I've seen there are possibly two upheld adjudicator cases for this junction; 2240583109 & 2240129273 sounds like this junction aswell.


Thanks,

Mark
« Last Edit: June 09, 2025, 07:53:53 pm by markie76 »

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I noted one of those successful appeals here in the second of the two in this thread. Suggest you go on inadequate signage citing the cases - is the other one similar.

https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/help-with-camden-pcns-two-received-one-minute-apart-on-tottenham-court-road/

I noted one of those successful appeals here in the second of the two in this thread. Suggest you go on inadequate signage citing the cases - is the other one similar.

https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/help-with-camden-pcns-two-received-one-minute-apart-on-tottenham-court-road/
Thank you for your reply.

The other one doesn't mention the actual location at all so cannot be 100% but from the reason it sounds like it;
"said that he did not knowingly contravene the restriction, as he did not see the relevant signs."
and
"There does not appear to be any sign on the right hand side of the road, which although not a requirement, is often installed in busy streets to assist with visibility."
and
"and the traffic light, which is positioned on the junction before the sign is far more eye catching."
and
"The blue carriageway for the cycle lane also draws the motorists attention"

It sounds like the junction with Howland street and similar situation to myself where I was at the rear of the van turning left looking at the traffic light on the right where there are no signs about the bus gate.

For my representation shall I go into detail with pics (I could revisit the scene in the morning) or just a description and cite the cases?

Thanks,

Mark



I have drafted the following - your feedback much appreciated;

Dear Sir/Madam,

This is my representation to PCN: X

On 21 May 2025 as it was a nice day, I decided to scoot to my UCLH appointment. After my appointment I set off navigating the one way streets between Gower Street and Tottenham Court Road. I found myself in Torrington Place behind a transit van waiting at the red traffic light.
When the traffic light turned green, I turned right into Tottenham Court Road following the transit van positioned at its offside rear - my usual position for riding in traffic ready to filter. Shortly after completing the turn, the van's left turn indicator came on, but ahead I could see the traffic light on the right hand side of the road, was red and I decided there is no point to filter past.

When the traffic light turned green I moved off behind the rear offside corner of the van. As the van began its left turn manoeuvre into Howland Road, my attention was drawn to the two circular side plates on the traffic light on the right hand side of the road I previously looked at (Picture 1). I thought I could see some blue in the top one like it was a mandatory instruction (arrow) – but as I got closer, concluded it must be covered up rather than faded and there is no mandatory instruction/instruction in force, so I continued straight ahead.

I did not knowingly contravene the restriction on particular types of vehicle, but I just did not see any signs relating to it due to;
1. My road position behind the transit van limiting my vision to the left.
2. I was focussing on the traffic light on the right hand side of the road where there is no restriction sign.

This concern of inadequate signage has already been upheld in a two tribunal cases;

Case Reference 2240583109, decided by Adjudicator Sean Stanton-Dunne on 25 March 2025. In that decision, the adjudicator ruled that the signage was inadequate and stated:
"In my judgement, the motorist travelling along Tottenham Court Road will not see the restricted route sign until it is too late to safely avoid using the route... I am allowing the appeal because I agree with Mr Khan that the signage is not adequate for the restricted route."

Case Reference 2240129273, decided by Adjudicator Cordelia Fantinic on 22 April 202. In that decision, the adjudicator also concluded the signage was inadequate and stated:
“I was not able to satisfy myself on the evidence before me, that the restriction was clearly and adequately signposted”
Specifically referring to a lack of signage on the right hand side of the road;
“There does not appear to be any sign on the right hand side of the road, which although not a requirement, is often installed in busy streets to assist with visibility.”

This was not a case of deliberate contravention but an unavoidable and honest mistake. The last time I rode on Tottenham Court Road was 12-15 years ago when it was still a one-way road. I hope Camden Council will take these factors — including the precedent set in the aforementioned cases into account when reviewing my representation.

Thank you for your time and consideration.

PICTURE 1
« Last Edit: June 10, 2025, 06:00:09 pm by markie76 »

Anyone? I've got 2 hours to submit  :'(
I may well be prepared to go all the way to tribunal - so anything in my draft I should omit or include?

Are my grounds 'There was no contravention of a prescribed order; or failure to comply with an indication; or contravention of the lorry ban order.'?
« Last Edit: June 10, 2025, 09:25:02 pm by markie76 »

Post the video.

Post the video.
Sorry I don't know how and can't find a guide - I PM'd you the link/details. Worked it out;


So at about 1.5 seconds I appear at the rear corner of the van and I'm checking the two 'circular side plates' (obscured in the video) on the traffic light on the right hand side of the road and concluded they're nothing and didn't see any other sign, so continued straight ahead.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2025, 10:37:41 pm by markie76 »

I would go for it at London Tribunals, as the cited cases are very recent and Camden, (as  usual) has done absolutely sweet-FA (nothing) to improve the signage. Why should they when this location is a nice little earner for them.

I just got it...

Keep it simple - you were puzzled to get the PCN but on reviewing the video see you were unsighted by the van from seeing the only sign.

You don't feel the signage is adequate and trust Camden will agree and cancel the PCN on this occasion.

Bear in mind the contravention is nothing to do with the direction arrows but with the timed bus/cycle gate.

I wouldn't bother citing other cases or saying much more. You can say something about a hospital appointment.




I would go for it at London Tribunals, as the cited cases are very recent and Camden, (as  usual) has done absolutely sweet-FA (nothing) to improve the signage. Why should they when this location is a nice little earner for them.
Thank you.

I just got it.....
OK Thank you.

Amended;
"Dear Sir/Madam,

I was puzzled to receive this PCN but on reviewing the video I can see that I was unsighted by the van in front of me from seeing the only sign about a restriction on vehicles of a certain type at this location.

I was returning from a hospital appointment and have not ridden in the area for over 10 years when Tottenham Court Road was a one-way street.

I don't feel the signage is adequate and trust Camden will agree and cancel the PCN on this occasion.

Thank you for your time and consideration."
« Last Edit: June 10, 2025, 11:17:07 pm by markie76 »

I was puzzled to receive this PCN but on reviewing the video I can see that from my riding position on my motorbike, I was unsighted by the van in front of me from seeing the only sign about a restriction on vehicles of a certain type at this location.

I was puzzled to receive this PCN but on reviewing the video I can see that from my riding position on my motorbike, I was unsighted by the van in front of me from seeing the only sign about a restriction on vehicles of a certain type at this location.
Good point 🏍️ - now submitted and I will update once I hear back.

As always all your input greatly appreciated.

Case Details
Case reference   2250121019
Appellant   Michael Curland
Authority   London Borough of Camden
VRM   EN06SZZ
PCN Details
PCN   CU69874024
Contravention date   03 Feb 2025
Contravention time   10:07:00
Contravention location   Tottenham Court Road by Junction with Howland Street
Penalty amount   GBP 130.00
Contravention   Using a route restricted to certain vehicles
Referral date   -
Decision Date   11 Jun 2025
Adjudicator   Sean Stanton-Dunne
Appeal decision   Appeal allowed
Direction   
cancel the Penalty Charge Notice and the Notice to Owner.

Reasons   
Mr Curland was scheduled for a personal hearing by video link on 21 May 2025 but he did not attend and the appeal therefore proceeded in his absence. Mrs Fee Cummins attended for the Council by video link.

This PCN was issued for the alleged contravention of using a route restricted to buses and cycles in Tottenham Court Road.

On the basis of the evidence presented on 21 May, I agreed with Mr Curland that the signage in Tottenham Court Road was not adequate for the restricted route.

The footage and images show a single restricted route sign in Tottenham Court Road. The sign is attached to a post on the left-hand side of the road. It is placed after the junction with Howland Street and next to a pedestrian crossing area.

In my judgement, the motorist travelling along Tottenham Court Road will not see the restricted route sign with its controlled hours until it is too late to safely avoid using the route. There is a blue sign at the traffic lights with a directional arrow directing traffic to turn to the left but the PCN was not issued for the alleged contravention of failing to drive in the direction shown by the arrow on a blue sign. The blue sign directional arrow is also misleading as the restricted route beyond the lights can be used outside of controlled hours.

I did, however, adjourn the hearing on 21 May because Mrs Cummins said that the Council had evidence of advance warning signs of the restricted route. I decided to give the Council the opportunity to produce photographic evidence of the signage which Mrs Cummins said was in place.

No further evidence has been received from the Council but London Tribunals has now received from the Council a notice stating that the appeal is no longer contested.

I allow the appeal for the reasons set out in the adjournment correspondence of 21 May.

Case Details
Case reference 2250121019
Appellant Michael Curland
Authority London Borough of Camden
Excellent find 👍

I have another appointment tomorrow and will have a good look for these claimed 'advance warning signs of the restricted route'. 🛑
Will also take pictures of my route/visibility if required at a later date.

Still no reply to my challenge submitted on 10 June 2025 BUT I checked it on the Camden website and the 'outstanding' is now showing as £160 (previously £80);




What should I do now?