Author Topic: Camden Council - Contravention code 21: 'parked wholly or partly in a suspended bay'  (Read 670 times)

0 Members and 115 Guests are viewing this topic.

Dear all,

I would like your opions on the matter.

Here's the PCN... [ Guests cannot view attachments ] [ Guests cannot view attachments ]

This is the google street view - Google map street view: https://maps.app.goo.gl/v81iRLYgUQgiU1Ba7

I have already written and submitted a challenge (1st), see below.

1st Challenge:
It comes to my attention that there is an ongoing parking suspension outside of my dwelling from the 27th Jan to the 29th Jan after I have received this penalty charge notice on my car (parked outside my dwelling) this evening. I (the registered car owner) am writing this challenge with photo evidence to demonstrate the signages have been placed in an area that do not inform the dwelling or the registered car owner in an effective manner. In addition, there was no information provided to the dwelling or the registered car owner.

1. The evidence showed the placement of the signages were located very distant to the dwelling. One image showed the signage was placed at No. 99. One image showed the signage was placed between No. 117 and No. 119. The suspension was between No. 109 to No. 115. My dwelling is not closed to the signage locations specified above. There was no signage across the road which could inform the dwelling to the suspension. In this situation, I am not well-informed about the suspension with the provided photo evidence.

2. There was no specific information provided to the household or registered car owner by any mean, for example, letters or leaflets. I am registered to the Camden council as I am currently occupying dwelling. The registered car has a parking permit issued by and registered to the Camden council. There were opportunities to better inform the dwelling or the registered car owner. To conclude, my challenge is based on the two points I raised which were not conducive to inform the dwelling or the registered car owner to the suspension. I would like this penalty charge notice to be reviewed. Thank you.

And I have submitted these photos as evidence (next thread)...

To be continued on next thread...

[ Guests cannot view attachments ]
« Last Edit: February 18, 2025, 11:05:46 pm by moon3hk »

Share on Bluesky Share on Facebook


Continued...

There is another photo but too large to post everything - it was showing the opposite side of the street with a lamppost and the usual parking signage.
Photo evidence: [ Guests cannot view attachments ] [ Guests cannot view attachments ]

1st Correspondence from the Camden Council:

Contravention code: 21
Parked wholly or partly in a suspended bay or space
Thank you for your letter received on 27/01/2025.
I understand that you are contesting the Penalty Charge Notice (PCN), but I have decided to enforce the Notice.
The Civil Enforcement Officer (CEO) observed your vehicle parked in a bay suspended for Statutory Works.
Whilst I appreciate the circumstances you have described in your correspondence; I have found no grounds to cancel the PCN. Drivers have a responsibility to check for and understand signs and markings and to park in accordance with them irrespective of familiarity or seek alternative parking.
I have referred to the CEO’s notes that record your vehicle was parked a reasonable distance from a time plate that had the suspension details stated on a large yellow sign. This bay was suspended from Constantine road bay type resident permit holder only location outside 109 to 115 from 08:00am to 18:00pm ( Daily) from the 27/01/2025 to 29/01/2025.
Bays are suspended from time to time and it is important to keep the area clear to allow the activity it is suspended for to take place. Any vehicles parked within suspended bays may cause an obstruction which can result in further suspensions. As the suspension information was clear and your vehicle was parked in a suspended space, I am enforcing this PCN.
We do not contact each permit holder when a bay is suspended; we do however; have a free online register where you are able to search by street name or Controlled Parking Zone for impending suspension. You can also sign up for our free courtesy email alert service for impending suspensions at camden.gov.uk/email-alerts-and-subscriptions. Through these online alert options and our on street signage we do aim to give residents up to 14 days’ notice of suspensions when possible.
I have included photographs taken by the CEO below for your reference:

[ Guests cannot view attachments ]

Given the above I am satisfied a contravention occurred. I have reset the discount charge for 14 days from the date of this letter and will accept payment of £65.00 in settlement if received during that time. After this period the charge will revert to £130.00.
You can pay this charge online at camden.gov.uk/pay or you can contact our 24 hour automated payment line on 020 7974 6104.
If you choose not to make payment we will send the registered keeper of the vehicle a Notice to Owner. This statutory document explains the grounds on which the registered keeper of the vehicle can make formal representations against the issuing of the PCN. I must make clear that the discount period for payment will have expired by the time a Notice to Owner is issued, and the charge will have reverted to the £130.00.
Please also be advised that if the council does reject any formal representations that are made by the registered keeper of the vehicle the registered keeper will have the option of appealing to the Environment and Traffic Adjudicators who are an independent adjudication service.
Yours sincerely
L Simons
Process Officer

Since then I have submitted another challenge...next thread...

[ Guests cannot view attachments ]

Continued...the third lamppost photo: [ Guests cannot view attachments ]

2nd Challenge to the correspondence:

Dear Sir or Madam, I have received a response, uploaded as evidence, from L Simons, Process Officer from the Parking Operations who found no ground to cancel this PCN without addressing the evidence I provided but only stating appreciation of my circumstances. I understand the importance of the council planned work. I have reviewed the photos prior to sending in my initial challenge which L. Simons has provided them once more in the response. L. Simons referred to the CEO's note who has recorded the car was parked a reasonable distance from a time plate that had the suspension details stated on a large yellow sign. I would like to emphasise the signs were placed outside of the specified suspended location as per my initial challenge and the photos re-upload as evidence. I fail to see how this is a reasonable distance and each sign's distance is far away from my dwelling. Additionally, the sign and the information was large and clear in the photo provided in the CEO's note as the CEO had walked up to the front of the sign to take the photo. I would like to put the attention on the size of the sign from a different perspective. Please refer to the photos I uploaded below to reconsider the size of the sign from my car's perspective/outside of my dwelling. They showed that the sign is not large or clear to the parked car's location. In the response, L Simons pointed out "Drivers have a responsibility to check for and understand signs and markings and to park in accordance with them irrespective of familiarity or seek alternative parking.". As stated above, there were no signs available outside my dwelling. It is unreasonable to ask an individual to walk up and down the street to check whether they can park outside their dwelling prior to returning to their dwelling when there was no sign. While I appreciate the advice about signing up for the free courtesy email alert service for impending suspensions by L. Simons, I would like to ask the Parking Operations to review the photo evidence which contradicted to the CEO's note and address them in the response, please. Thank you.

2nd Correspondence from the Camden Council:

Thank you for your letter received on 07/02/2025.
Please note that the signage was put in place on 9th January, more than 14 days before the suspension took place, which provided sufficient notification of the suspension. As such, the signage was adequately clear with sufficient warning, even if it wasn’t directly by your vehicle.
I have considered your correspondence and this PCN. After reviewing our records relating to this PCN, I am satisfied that my colleague’s decision to enforce the charge was correct.
Should you wish to contest this PCN further, please wait for a Notice to Owner to be issued to the registered keeper of the vehicle which will allow formal representations to be made. If these representations are rejected there is then the option to lodge an appeal with the Environment and Traffic Adjudicators, where an independent adjudicator will consider the case and come to a binding decision.
I have reset the discount charge for a final 14 day period from the date of this letter and will accept payment of £65.00 in settlement if received during that time. The charge will revert to £130.00 if payment is not made and for any further challenge.
You can pay this charge online at camden.gov.uk/pay or you can contact our 24 hour automated payment line on 020 7974 6104.
For useful information on driving and parking in Camden visit camden.gov.uk/parking.
Yours sincerely
L Simons
Process Officer Parking Operations

I would like to know if it is worth persuing to the next stage or I should just concede and pay out...I have reviewed the Camden Council document and unable to find what is "reasonable distance". Also, I can see there was another suspension put on a tree which was not in my case and clearly closer to my parked car. Would that be a valid argument point?

Thank you for reading my long thread. Much appreciated.

[ Guests cannot view attachments ]
« Last Edit: February 18, 2025, 11:16:01 pm by moon3hk »

The bottom line is this: you are entitled to take the bay sign nearest to your car as applicable to your parking. However this must be a sign that applies to the bay.  The sign for the EV charging bay does not apply to where you parked and was not suspended so the council didn't put a suspension sign by it. The bay divider between the EV bay and the parking bay can be seen in your photo.It is the double-dashed white line perpendicular to the kerb.

As I understand from your very long post, you complained that the nearest sign had no suspension notice on it. If the nearest sign was the one for the EV bay, then your complaint is not valid.  In addition, signs on the opposite side of t he street to where you parked would also not have suspension notices, as each side of a street is separate for parking regulation purposes.

In addition to the above, your complaint about the council not advising permit holders individually of forthcoming suspensions has no merit either because it is not a legal requirement.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2025, 12:27:52 pm by Incandescent »

Thank you for spending time reading my thread and provide your opinion.

I would like to ask if these matter, it is published in 2009 and I cannot find any newer documentation.

CIVIL PARKING AND TRAFFIC ENFORCEMENT AND ASSOCIATED SERVICES SCHEDULE 2 CONTRACT SPECIFICATION

3.2.33.8.3. In line with this suspensions plan, the Service Provider will take the following action to suspend those bays requested for Suspension by carrying out the following tasks:
 to affix advance warning labels to advance warning boards to create AWS;
 to place (AWS) beneath time-plates at a height suitable for optimum visibility. Placing of warning signs must be made in accordance with the relevant notice periods, or other notice periods as instructed by the AO:
 to place suspension bags over time-plates and/or Pay and Display machines to the suspension start date. This should occur on the evening before the suspension start date (but after the cessation of controlled hours for
that parking place), or by 6am on the day of the commencement of the suspension

3.2.33.8.6. Where only part of a parking place is to be suspended, advance warning signage (AWS) shall be placed on all time-plates posts within the parking place. If there is more than one time-plate within that parking place, only the time-plate closest to the area to be suspended shall be covered with a bag. If only one time-plate serves the entire parking place, no suspension bag shall be placed over it. By leaving it uncovered, motorists will still be able to identify the applicable parking restriction for parking spaces that are not to be suspended.

There were no bag on the time plate and one of the AWS closest to my parked car was not placed in the optimum visibility.

Apologies for the persistance.

What is the source of this document extract ?

The relevant clause is this - 3.2.33.8.6.Where only part of a parking place is to be suspended, advance warning signage (AWS) shall be placed on all time-plates posts within the parking place.

I don't think 'bagging' is used any more. Most councils put up the bright yellow suspension signs that act as advance warning and also the suspension itself.

As I said. If the nearest sign for the bay where you parked did not have a suspension sign on it, then the suspension has not been correctly advised, and you should take them to London Tribunals. The EV bay sign is totally irrelevant in this regard. It is a separate bay, and was not suspended.

This is my final contribution