Author Topic: Bus Lane PCN Longbridge Road Barking  (Read 158 times)

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Hassan

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Bus Lane PCN Longbridge Road Barking
« on: August 03, 2023, 03:16:56 pm »
Hi all,

So I received a PCN back in November 2022 due to being on the bus lane. I appealed with Barking and Dagenham council via an online portal they have.

They initially rejected the informal appeal, then when I submitted the appeal formally they did not send me any response to this.

The second appeal was submitted back in February 2022 all within the time frame they provide.

After a while I received a charge certificate and was advised on the other forum to wait for the Order for Recovery where I can appeal on the ground that I did not receive any rejection notice.

Link to original post is: http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=147721

On the PE3 form I've submitted to the TEC I think I may ticked the incorrect box as I ticked the 3rd one which states: I appealed to the Parking/Traffic Adjudicator against the local authority's decision....

However I think it should have been the second box which states: I made representations about the penalty charge to the local authority concerned within 28 days....


I didn't get the chance to appeal to the adjudicator and that's why I should have ticked the second box instead.

Can someone advise me on this.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2023, 03:25:17 pm by Hassan »

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Hippocrates

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Re: Bus Lane PCN Longbridge Road Barking
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2023, 09:54:16 am »
It should have been the second box.  I do not know what to advise actually other than to perhaps contact the TEC and tell them what has happened and do another one if that is allowed and ask the solicitor who witnessed the signature.

I am not going to slap your wrists!  You must get this sorted asap.
There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends a hearing, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply in view of some adjudicators' lack of knowing what they ought to know.

"Hippocrates"

Hassan

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Re: Bus Lane PCN Longbridge Road Barking
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2023, 11:40:31 am »
Just called TEC and iíve asked them to disregard the PE3 I sent them.

The lady I spoke to said theyíre working on a backlog and I should be OK to send the corrected form again and everything has been noted down.

Iíve gone and witness and signed the new form again and sent it.

Hippocrates

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Re: Bus Lane PCN Longbridge Road Barking
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2023, 02:45:05 pm »
Just keep copies of everything and check in with the TEC weekly to check the status.
There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends a hearing, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply in view of some adjudicators' lack of knowing what they ought to know.

"Hippocrates"

Hassan

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Re: Bus Lane PCN Longbridge Road Barking
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2023, 10:39:51 am »
Good Morning all,

Iíve received the outcome from the TEC and the order for recovery for the penalty charge has been revoked.

So now waiting on the council to re-issue me the PCN again.

Will I need to go through the 2 stage appeal process again when it comes through?

I feel slightly relieved now!

Thank you all!

cp8759

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Re: Bus Lane PCN Longbridge Road Barking
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2023, 05:02:11 pm »
Please confirm which box you ticked on the TEC form (not by telling us the box number, write out what is written next to the box).
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law. Section 6 of the Interpretation Act 1978 applies to everything I post as it would apply to an Act of Parliament. I am a Conservative councillor, this means some people think I am "scum". I am not a lawyer.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Hassan

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Re: Bus Lane PCN Longbridge Road Barking
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2023, 05:48:38 pm »
Please confirm which box you ticked on the TEC form (not by telling us the box number, write out what is written next to the box).

On the form, I ticked the box that says "I made representations about the penalty charge to the local authority concerned within 28 days of the service of the Notice to Owner/Enforcement Notice/Penalty Charge Notice, but did not receive a rejection notice."

Shortly after received the letter from the Nottingham County Court stating that the order for recovery has been revoked however the PCN has not been cancelled and council may or may not pursue the initial PCN.

Hippocrates

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Re: Bus Lane PCN Longbridge Road Barking
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2023, 09:30:52 pm »
The council should now go to the Tribunal.  If you need representation, I will offer my services free.  They did not have the correct VCA certificate at the time of the alleged contravention so the evidence is inadmissible at the Tribunal.

I will PM you.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/1996/9/schedule/1/enacted

Para. 10(2) and (7)

Presumably, the Charge Certificate has also been cancelled/rescinded or whatever the term is!?
« Last Edit: August 22, 2023, 09:46:32 pm by Hippocrates »
There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends a hearing, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply in view of some adjudicators' lack of knowing what they ought to know.

"Hippocrates"

cp8759

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Re: Bus Lane PCN Longbridge Road Barking
« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2023, 01:32:19 pm »
Presumably, the Charge Certificate has also been cancelled/rescinded or whatever the term is!?
The revoking order from TEC cancels both the Order for Recovery and the Charge Certificate.
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law. Section 6 of the Interpretation Act 1978 applies to everything I post as it would apply to an Act of Parliament. I am a Conservative councillor, this means some people think I am "scum". I am not a lawyer.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Hippocrates

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Re: Bus Lane PCN Longbridge Road Barking
« Reply #9 on: August 29, 2023, 09:50:23 pm »
Ok.  Taking care of this one.
There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends a hearing, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply in view of some adjudicators' lack of knowing what they ought to know.

"Hippocrates"

Hippocrates

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Re: Bus Lane PCN Longbridge Road Barking
« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2023, 06:56:15 pm »
Update.  The NOR has been requested as well as the full case log history. They have replied back advising to make a SAR to foir department.  I think it time to test their knowledge of the legislation @ Schedule 1.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/1996/9/schedule/1/enacted



I do not believe anyone on the forum has been down this route yet?
« Last Edit: October 31, 2023, 07:19:32 pm by Hippocrates »
There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends a hearing, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply in view of some adjudicators' lack of knowing what they ought to know.

"Hippocrates"

cp8759

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Re: Bus Lane PCN Longbridge Road Barking
« Reply #11 on: November 01, 2023, 07:31:58 pm »
I do not believe anyone on the forum has been down this route yet?
What route? SARs are used by some on here all the time, but it takes a month to get a response. It'll be quicker to wait for the council to refer the case to the adjudicator, then get an LoA, email it to the tribunal, then call them up and ask for a copy of the evidence pack to be emailed to you. The notice of rejection should be in evidence item E. Also ask the tribunal to change the comms preference to email, so you don't have to worry about postal issues any more.

Barking and Dagenham sends everything by post and the the tribunal scanning centre uses .tiff files, so you need to use a service like https://tiff2pdf.com/ to convert the evidence pack to PDF and make all the pages visible (otherwise you can only see the first page of each document).
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law. Section 6 of the Interpretation Act 1978 applies to everything I post as it would apply to an Act of Parliament. I am a Conservative councillor, this means some people think I am "scum". I am not a lawyer.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

cp8759

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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law. Section 6 of the Interpretation Act 1978 applies to everything I post as it would apply to an Act of Parliament. I am a Conservative councillor, this means some people think I am "scum". I am not a lawyer.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Hippocrates

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Re: Bus Lane PCN Longbridge Road Barking
« Reply #13 on: November 21, 2023, 07:22:59 pm »
Not yet.  This is next on my list.  ;D
There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends a hearing, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply in view of some adjudicators' lack of knowing what they ought to know.

"Hippocrates"

Hippocrates

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Re: Bus Lane PCN Longbridge Road Barking
« Reply #14 on: November 21, 2023, 08:34:10 pm »
I do not believe anyone on the forum has been down this route yet?
What route? SARs are used by some on here all the time, but it takes a month to get a response. It'll be quicker to wait for the council to refer the case to the adjudicator, then get an LoA, email it to the tribunal, then call them up and ask for a copy of the evidence pack to be emailed to you. The notice of rejection should be in evidence item E. Also ask the tribunal to change the comms preference to email, so you don't have to worry about postal issues any more.

Barking and Dagenham sends everything by post and the the tribunal scanning centre uses .tiff files, so you need to use a service like https://tiff2pdf.com/ to convert the evidence pack to PDF and make all the pages visible (otherwise you can only see the first page of each document).

The route of helping a motorist in terms of this particular legislation post OFR stage.  I am not going to make a SAR when it is the responsibility, as you say, to file evidence with the Tribunal.  But, this council's reputation precedes them as we  know.  And so should their barrister on his watch!  As dysfunctional, at least, as the others.  It keeps us alive.  :o

I will message you with the OP's permission.
There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends a hearing, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply in view of some adjudicators' lack of knowing what they ought to know.

"Hippocrates"