3. Bus lane or bus gate pcn
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Bus lane or bus gate pcn
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Got caught twice by this camera. Did notice that the PCN says a bus lane but the video shows it as a bus gate. don't know if it makes a difference.

Can anybody see anything worth appealing or shall I just pay at the discount price.

Please find below video footage and the PCN for one of the contraventions.

https://buslanepayments.essex.gov.uk/GetVideo.aspx?00010259YATor76EBLW59mAzPLTC2GtL6tSIXqU%2fyP1MbHjgRSdbW0AoHyuPyxl62N7wVdODo2ePzAYkxxexuy0YGAEw%3d%3d.mp4

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1idV1KqkCv6XGNyOxit_Ig2oL6dQA5Vgx?usp=drive_link

origanal pepipoo thread here
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=151454

Hope it all works.
Thanks
« Last Edit: September 20, 2023, 03:05:54 pm by sparky26 »
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Re: Bus lane or bus gate pcn
« Reply #1 on: »
As I said on Pepipoo, the PCN does not contain all the statutory grounds for an appeal, so is void.
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Re: Bus lane or bus gate pcn
« Reply #2 on: »
Hi thanks for the info could you please help me with what to write. Many thanks
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Re: Bus lane or bus gate pcn
« Reply #3 on: »
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Re: Bus lane or bus gate pcn
« Reply #4 on: »
Wow that alot to take in.
If being honest I'm a little lost with it all.

The TRO for Hythe says the following.

No person shall cause or permit any vehicle.
To enter proceed or wait in the bus lanes specified in section 1 to this order between 8am and 6pm Monday to Saturdays inclusive.
As both PCN were issued out of these times, is this another factor we could use.
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Re: Bus lane or bus gate pcn
« Reply #5 on: »
There may be an update to that TRO, but no harm in including what it says, but the failure to include all the statutory conditions for an appeal is a procedural impropriety, and thus makes the PCN void.

If the regulations say something must be done, then  if it isn't done, a penalty cannot be collected. This is a judgment of the High Court and binding on them. Basically they've been caught out by the May 2022 change in the Act governing bus lane enforcement, and have failed to read the regulations.

However, don't expect them to cancel, because they want your money,  so will ruthlessly game the system by refusing your reps and forcing you to take the gamble of going to adjudication. At this point, most people fold and cough-up; is this you ?  Hopefully, others here will agree with what I have said; this should be a slam-dunk win.
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Re: Bus lane or bus gate pcn
« Reply #6 on: »
Hi thanks for the time you have spent replying.
The trouble is I have 2 of these on different days. So it's alot of money and a gamble. So would want to be sure,that going all the way would win. If its law and they must do it is it still possible for the adjudicator to not agree?
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Re: Bus lane or bus gate pcn
« Reply #7 on: »
No case is 100% guaranteed, but I'd expect to win a case like this 9 times out of 10.

You can use this draft: https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/bus-lane-pcn-chelmsford/msg2476/#msg2476
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Bus lane or bus gate pcn
« Reply #8 on: »
Thanks for this will update here when I have a reply. Many thanks
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Re: Bus lane or bus gate pcn
« Reply #9 on: »
 Hi this morning i received the expected Notice of Rejection of Representation, for both PCN. Ive uploaded 1 to the google folder in the first post. Also on both rejection  letters on the 2nd page it mentions a completely different reg number the same wrong reg number is on both rejection letters .

Also this morning i received a 3rd pcn for the same place (hopefully no more). I would of thought i just appeal the 3rd one the same as the others and wait for the Rejection letter to come.   
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Re: Bus lane or bus gate pcn
« Reply #10 on: »
Quote

Also this morning i received a 3rd pcn for the same place (hopefully no more).

You can ring and ask if there are any other PCNs against your reg.mark.
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Re: Bus lane or bus gate pcn
« Reply #11 on: »
As I mentioned on Pepipoo this webpage, which has the TRO, is important:-

https://www.essexhighways.org/getting-around/bus-lane-enforcement/hythe-hill-colchester

My view is that the Borough Council is the enforcement authority not the County Council.

Mike
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Re: Bus lane or bus gate pcn
« Reply #12 on: »
You have until 17 October to pay the discount, and even if you pay it you can still appeal for the full 28 days, so there is no immediate rush to do anything.

In the meantime, please upload the new PCN and the other notice of rejection.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Bus lane or bus gate pcn
« Reply #13 on: »
Quote from: cp8759 on September 27, 2023, 12:28:39 am
You have until 17 October to pay the discount, and even if you pay it you can still appeal for the full 28 days, so there is no immediate rush to do anything.

In the meantime, please upload the new PCN and the other notice of rejection.
Thanks. Do I appeal PCN 3 with the same argument as the first 2 PCN.
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Re: Bus lane or bus gate pcn
« Reply #14 on: »
An appeal is to the tribunal, I assume what you're actually asking is whether you should make representations against PCN 3 on the same ground as the first 2 PCNs. The answer is yes.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
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