3. Bus Lane Contravention Lancelot Road, Brent > PCN non-compliant
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Bus Lane Contravention Lancelot Road, Brent > PCN non-compliant
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Hello

This continues the original thread from the PePiPoo forum.


Please find attached the PCN, my representation (informal challenge), Brent's rejection, and most recently their 'kind' offer to let me have an extension to pay the discounted amount.

4 documents in total.

I have a dilemma now, as there is a window for me to pay the discounted amount or I risk it doubling.

What do you think? It's more risky to roll the dice now that they have given me the option to pay the lesser amount, and as much as I want to fight this, I can barely afford the 65 quid, let alone the 135!

Thanks


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« Last Edit: August 06, 2023, 06:41:43 pm by persistence! »
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Re: Bus Lane Contravention Lancelot Road, Brent > PCN non-compliant
« Reply #1 on: »
It really is up to you. cp8759 gave you what is normally a winning argument. Many appeals are won on technicalities, so don't think it will be ignored by the adjudicator. If you take them to London Tribunals, you'll have enough time to save up the extra £65.
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Re: Bus Lane Contravention Lancelot Road, Brent > PCN non-compliant
« Reply #2 on: »
I'm not aware of this particular technicality ever failing, indeed the adjudicators have started using sterner wording if you look for example at what Carl Teper said in Ian O'Flynn v London Borough of Lambeth (2230309483, 26 July 2023) just last week.

I'm happy to represent you at the tribunal if you wish.

For now all you need to do is send a formal representation using exactly the same text as last time:

Dear London Borough of Brent,

The London Local Authorities Act 1996 provides that a PCN must state that the full penalty of £130 must be paid before the end of the period of 28 days commencing with the date of the notice, however the PCN served in this instance wrongly states that the 28 day period commences with the date of service of the notice.

This is a material departure from the requirements of the statutory scheme, as a result of which no penalty may be demanded.

Yours faithfully,

Once you get the formal Notice of Rejection, I can do the rest for you.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2023, 09:58:48 pm by cp8759 »
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Bus Lane Contravention Lancelot Road, Brent > PCN non-compliant
« Reply #3 on: »
Not wishing to disagree or play Devil's Advocate, one might meet another adjudicator who may decide that the PCN gives you an extra time period!  We all know whom.  ;)  Similarly, Kingston have the same problem which I hope will be won in the next couple of months.
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IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r
Re: Bus Lane Contravention Lancelot Road, Brent > PCN non-compliant
« Reply #4 on: »
Thanks everyone, on balance it feels risky. And while I appreciate the kind offer to repesent at the tribunal - I hate to say this but I think I'm going to put an end to this now.
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Re: Bus Lane Contravention Lancelot Road, Brent > PCN non-compliant
« Reply #5 on: »
Quote from: brazilianx on August 09, 2023, 08:44:35 pm
Thanks everyone, on balance it feels risky. And while I appreciate the kind offer to repesent at the tribunal - I hate to say this but I think I'm going to put an end to this now.
I'm so sure that this will win, that if we go to appeal and lose, I'll pay the other £65. Unless you've already thrown £65 down the drain?
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
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Re: Bus Lane Contravention Lancelot Road, Brent > PCN non-compliant
« Reply #6 on: »
I would certainly accept cp's offer.  If anyone can win on this argument, he is the man to do so.
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IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r
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Re: Bus Lane Contravention Lancelot Road, Brent > PCN non-compliant
« Reply #7 on: »
Personally, I would also take up CP's offer. Have faith.
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Re: Bus Lane Contravention Lancelot Road, Brent > PCN non-compliant
« Reply #8 on: »
Quote from: cp8759 on August 10, 2023, 12:22:06 am
Quote from: brazilianx on August 09, 2023, 08:44:35 pm
Thanks everyone, on balance, it feels risky. And while I appreciate the kind offer to represent at the tribunal - I hate to say this, but I think I'm going to put an end to this now.
I'm so sure that this will win, that if we go to appeal and lose, I'll pay the other £65. Unless you've already thrown £65 down the drain?

Well no I haven't paid up - was procrastinating and now rethinking. Again, an extremely generous offer and your confidence underscores your conviction in the argument, which is encouraging.

Let me DM you
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Re: Bus Lane Contravention Lancelot Road, Brent > PCN non-compliant
« Reply #9 on: »
So, that's the spirit. cp and a few others are, indeed, rare human beings.  You are in good hands.
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IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r
Like Like x 1 View List
Re: Bus Lane Contravention Lancelot Road, Brent > PCN non-compliant
« Reply #10 on: »
Hello again

Picking up where we left off back in August.

As last discussed, I lodged the informal appeal and today I received a formal Notice of Rejection.

I have attached both these documents.

As per our last conversation on this PCN, I look forward to taking this to the tribunal with your assistance.

Keen to understand what grounds of appeal we will use:
https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/eat/grounds-appeal/grounds-appeal-bus-lanes

Let's win this! ;D

Thanks

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« Last Edit: September 19, 2023, 03:29:32 pm by brazilianx »
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Re: Bus Lane Contravention Lancelot Road, Brent > PCN non-compliant
« Reply #11 on: »

You didn't even mention an exemption!

As for "Brent Council is satisfied   ..... that the date of notice is the same as the Date of Service of Notice"

shows he may have considered your rep[ but has failed to understand it.
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Re: Bus Lane Contravention Lancelot Road, Brent > PCN non-compliant
« Reply #12 on: »
Thanks

Can you clarify what you mean by

Quote
You didn't even mention an exemption!
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Re: Bus Lane Contravention Lancelot Road, Brent > PCN non-compliant
« Reply #13 on: »
The CCTV camera has been confirmed as a ZenGrab LaneWatch Mk2, which does have a certificate in place.
Logged
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Like Like x 1 View List
Re: Bus Lane Contravention Lancelot Road, Brent > PCN non-compliant
« Reply #14 on: »
https://www.ftla.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=338.0;attach=1678

Mr A Morris is also legislationally challenged.  I assume cp is doing this one so he will be along shortly.
Logged
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r
Like Like x 1 View List
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  3. Bus Lane Contravention Lancelot Road, Brent > PCN non-compliant