3. Unauthorised Bay Use - Brighton
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Unauthorised Bay Use - Brighton
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Good afternoon

First post, so thanks in advance to anyone that takes the time to read and/or reply

Apologies in advance also if I've raised incorrectly or am missing anything

I've received a charge for having 'building materials' on the 'highway'
We do not have a front garden and as opposed to leaving the building materials on the pavement, obstructing what is a busy street (school & nursery nearby) the materials were left on the road, in front of my house and where I would normally park my car (that I have a paid-for residents permit for)

Letter below

I haven't received any warnings or notifications, this is the first I've heard of it. Its not addressed to me by name, just to my street address.

Do I have any options here pls?

Thanks in advance

« Last Edit: May 10, 2024, 04:58:40 pm by Simon321456 »
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Re: Unauthorised Bay Use - Brighton
« Reply #1 on: »
Some unknown person should have applied for a license to store building materials. It seems that random person didn't. Maybe it was me renovating a house a bit down the road

Currently the authoriry have taken umbage and decided to invoice the fee to a property under threat of enforcement via their debt recovery.

It is somewhat unclear as to how they can successfully take out any form of civil claim against that entity.

They might be quite pleased if somebody said to them "I got it delivered".

If the property failed to respond, which unless it suddenly gains some form of sentience it would be the case then they need to find some way of assigning culpability to an individual. Once they have done that an owner or occupier might have a better idea of how to react.

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Re: Unauthorised Bay Use - Brighton
« Reply #2 on: »
An invoice made out to 'Whom it may concern'. Worth saving for the grandchildren!

Anyway, 'the materials were left on the road,', but by whom were they left?

If you, then (and there's no point dancing around this) you've been very foolish because you need a licence AND insurance cover for this, B&H Council refer to £10 million, and your home insurer would disclaim any liability. Frankly, the parking suspension issue is of secondary importance. If there's a fatal or serious accident which occurs because of this you could lose your house.

If by a contractor on your behalf, then they should know better. B&H refer to 'professional' contractors knowing what's required, and they do. So who was used?

This is very serious and potentially financially devastating for you, or whoever was the person who commissioned this act.

But if a licence is held then the issue is parking suspension. But there couldn't/shouldn't be a licence without a suspension?! If you had any hand in this then IMO get it moved. At least check if whoever left the materials has a licence from the council for this purpose.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2024, 09:40:25 pm by H C Andersen »
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Re: Unauthorised Bay Use - Brighton
« Reply #3 on: »
Interesting but their request for money is complete balls.

They have to take action under the TMA 2004 which leads to a fixed penalty notice after a request to clear the highway is ignored.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2004/18/part/5/crossheading/skips-scaffolding-building-materials-and-excavations-charges-for-occupation-of-highway-etc

Mike
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Re: Unauthorised Bay Use - Brighton
« Reply #4 on: »
@slapdash that is an absolutely outstanding response. Splendid work

@H C Andersen Somebody has moved the materials now, yes. I can swear in court that I did not leave the materials there but I would wager that nobody applied for any permits, licences or insurance


What would you fine folk say my next action is, do nothing? The letter gives a deadline of 15th by which to make payment but of course, it isn't addressed to anyone

@MMV Redux cheers for that but would you mind highlighting where on that page refers to a penalty notice AFTER a request to move? This is the first and only thing that we've been sent

But interestingly, I was chatting to a neighbour who had a loft conversion done and they had building materials in the road outside their house too. In their case, the council called the trader's (had a sign up) and gave them 24hrs notice to shift it before they'd issue a fine
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Re: Unauthorised Bay Use - Brighton
« Reply #5 on: »
Realistically I think the householders options are either:-

- Send some money
- Totally ignore it

I would expect the latter to possibly generate some noise.

If the householder happens to be involved in any way lying to the authority may be a bad move. Equally they may want to consider that forums posts are not unknown to be used in both civil and criminal proceedings. It may be the case that an appropriately framed enquiry could be used to force disclosure of an account owner.

What (if anything) is received next should govern action. But until they move from fishing to something specific, perhaps making an actual allegation against an individual under some regulation I would do nothing.

(The next stage might be the issue of an invoice to whoever happens to be the council tax payer at some property close to the materials. I fail to see any contractual relationship).

« Last Edit: May 11, 2024, 12:02:08 pm by slapdash »
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Re: Unauthorised Bay Use - Brighton
« Reply #6 on: »
OP--This one should give you an idea of the process to be undertaken by the Council:-

https://www.redbridge.gov.uk/news/feb-2023/seven-kings-resident-hammered-with-court-fine-after-illegally-storing-building-materials-on-road/

Your Council have tried to dun money through an abuse of process:-

1) It was never anything to do with a parking bay suspension--come on!

2) Their calculation of the amount due using a spurious bay suspension is risible.

3) They have a duty to act properly using the appropriate legislation --they haven't.

4) Their intention to use debt recovery processes on non payment is likewise ultra vires.

5) A licence usually costs £50-£100 for a number of days--so IMO that amounts to the Council's loss albeit without the penal element of a FPN.

But we obviousy have a "fishing" letter to identify the "miscreants" so my view is that you clear the highway asap and wait for any follow up.

Since the "fishing" letter isn't an instruction to clear the highway then any FPN is stymied IMO.

If you do pay anything I would report the Council to the LA Ombudsman on the basis of maladministration. They are,in my view,in abuse of process by ignoring their responsibilities under the TMA ect legislation to process a FPN and even more so by inventing a fairy story on costs.

In all of this, pay close attention to what HCA says, he used to be a senior Council official.

Mike
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Re: Unauthorised Bay Use - Brighton
« Reply #7 on: »
OP, is the letter addressed to a person by name or an address?

Your posts do not suggest that a licence to deposit materials had been obtained therefore I assume one was not.

I am shocked by the letter. As I posted, unauthorised - and therefore by definition unsafe - deposits on the highway are potentially lethal. A council officer from the highways authority should have been knocking on doors to find out what's what and then taken proportionate action. But to tacitly allow the obstruction to continue providing that someone paid for a parking bay suspension is as laughable as it is worrying.

The council's 'debt recovery procedure' won't do anything without a name and unless you personally deposited the materials then it cannot be you.
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Re: Unauthorised Bay Use - Brighton
« Reply #8 on: »
The letter completely fails to advise what law has been allegedly contravened. Require the council to identify the law they accuse you of having contravened and to point you in the direction of where the fees they seek are prescribed in law. They cannot charge unless the law allows them to.
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Re: Unauthorised Bay Use - Brighton
« Reply #9 on: »
Sorry phantomcrusader---no contact!. The Council don't know and the OP won't tell!

Mike
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Re: Unauthorised Bay Use - Brighton
« Reply #10 on: »
Quote from: MMV Redux on May 12, 2024, 06:23:17 pm
Sorry phantomcrusader---no contact!. The Council don't know and the OP won't tell!

Mike
Yes that makes sense for now. Should the council chase the OP directly for payment then the council need to answer the questions.
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Re: Unauthorised Bay Use - Brighton
« Reply #11 on: »
Morning all

Huge, huge thanks for all the replies, its very much appreciated

To confirm, the items in question were removed immediately upon receipt of the letter


@H C Anderson - correct, not addressed to anyone, only the street address

@MMV Redux - again, thanks for taking the time to point out another case as precedent, and highlighting how odd this whole thing appears to be



Is there a chance that this is some kind of scam? Clutching at straws potentially, but now that I think more about it and looking at the letters (there were 2x, one for a random address....) whilst all of the details on the letters are correct, they are not on letterheaded paper? The letter is in black and white, as opposed to the normal colours that appear on council letters

There is a QR code to scan and make payment, but anyone could do that, right?

I'm going to see what, if anything, further happens from here on in and update accordingly

Thanks a million once again, this whole thread is a huge comfort

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Re: Unauthorised Bay Use - Brighton
« Reply #12 on: »
The typical QR scam is fake stickers on parking machines.

It is a bit specific, you could attempt to derive the payment amount from the information on the council websitem

It doesn't have a particular "feel" for a scam. It would take someeffort to be driving round the streets looking for piles of material and posting off letters to adjacent properties.
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Re: Unauthorised Bay Use - Brighton
« Reply #13 on: »
Yes, it strikes as somewhat unlikely they'd go to such measures but the whole thing is puzzling. If not, are they just hoping whomever was responsible for the materials pops a head above the parapet? And if they do not, next action is direct contact?

Just weird that there would be no warnings or contact before this level of escalation

It does tally though, the charge to suspend a parking bay is £51 per day

Legit, just managed badly?
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Re: Unauthorised Bay Use - Brighton
« Reply #14 on: »
Did you receive this by post or e-mail?

The 'letter'says
Quote
Pay ... within three working days of the date of this e-mail.

If it came by post one would expect it to say 'of this letter'.
If it came by post was there a date on the post mark? Or was it delivered by hand?
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  3. Unauthorised Bay Use - Brighton