Author Topic: Bromley council. Charge Certif. PCN code 27, parked on Albemarle road blocked with flower pot.no sig  (Read 1135 times)

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@cp8759
Hello, please can you advise kindly? I received a charge certificate from Bromley council for parking on Albemarle road, Beckenham in a part that is blocked with two flower pots,Google map location 51.40762° N, 0.00383° W. https://goo.gl/maps/b9uM5abfgGHuWSr66 Dropped pin. There are no signs or parking restrictions there. I didn’t get a PCN on my car on the day, nor a Notice to Owner through the post. The first communication about it was the charge certificate for £165 after the appeal time has passed. The supporting evidence PCN details on council website shows 2 photos of my car parked but no clear detail (block boxes not visible)and no PCN yellow ticket on the windscreen. After receiving the Charge Cert., I contacted the council through the online form and explained that I have never received no PCN nor Notice to Owner. They responded with a letter in post that I can’t appeal at this stage and have to pay, however they reduced the amount to £110 removing the charge cert surcharge (£55). The letter says I have 14 days to pay or else. I responded again to say there was no PCN, they once again sent me the same letter. I feel this is extremely unfair, first because there was no contravention, second - I have not received any comms about it before the charge certificate arrived. All the letters and photo evidence is
https://ibb.co/f9hbd77
https://ibb.co/t89FgXj
https://ibb.co/JksXfrQ
https://ibb.co/SvHrF72
https://ibb.co/5vnyqtD
https://ibb.co/rfhhqxy
https://ibb.co/BP4qJdK

Please can you advise what could I possibly do at this stage?
Thank you for your help.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2024, 08:13:57 pm by Justicenow »

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As you don't get the NTO you can wait for the order for recovery and make a witness statement that you didn't get it, which will automatically result in them reissuing the NTO to which you can make reps and you should at least get out of it owing only £55.

Are the name and address on the charge certificate correct?

+1
The council are being their usual obdurate selves, so if you want to fight this, or at least get to a position of only paying the discounted amount, (£55), you have to now ignore their letter of 19th November, and wait for them to register the debt at the Traffic Enforcement Centre. This adds £10 to the CC amount, and they then send you an Order for Recovery.  Accompanying the OfR, will be a form to submit a Witness Statement. You then fill this form in, and send it off to TEC. TEC then cancel the CC and OfR and the process reverts back to the NtO stage. You can then pay or submit representations.  This palaver is totally routine nowadays, so nothing to fear. It is this, or pay the £110 they are demanding.

The PCN would have been served by a CEO to your car, as it is for a parking contravention under the Traffic Management Act 2004. If they get no response to it, they then send a Notice to Owner to the name and address on the V5 Registration Certificate for the car. Presumably this is yourself ?  As Stamfordman asks, is the name and address on the CC correct and identical to the name and address on your V5 ?

I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Thank you,
The name and address are correct in the CC, however the line with the name is misaligned and printed over another line, which is the letter registration number or smth.
The car V5 is registered to myself, that’s right.
And, yes, I do wish to fight this unfair penalty. I believe that there was no contravention in the first place. The other motorists, who got a parking ticket at that same place successfully appealed on the basis that this is not an active road as it has been blocked by planters, hence the regular rules do not apply.
I never received the Notice to Owner, which I should have received before the CC, if I haven’t gotten the PCN. Is it fair to request the proof of issuing either of those?
The fact that they reduced the originally claimed amount straight away makes me think that they know it’s wrong but ask me to pay anyway, in case if I cave in to avoid the whole palaver.

Thank you very much for the info.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2024, 11:29:15 pm by Justicenow »

You can do nothing at all to fight the PCN until you have got the process reverted to the Notice to Owner stage. So from this point on you need to be proactive as per the info in the link posted by cp8759.

I never received the Notice to Owner, which I should have received before the CC, if I haven’t gotten the PCN. Is it fair to request the proof of issuing either of those?
You can ask whatever you want, but you'd be wasting your time. If you want to fight this PCN, please follow the instructions in the guide. I wouldn't ask you to follow those steps if I thought there were an easier or quicker way to do this.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2025, 10:31:04 pm by cp8759 »
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Yes, of course I will be following those steps exactly as it’s laid out in the guide. Thank you very much for this advice. I am also trying to get a good understanding whether there was a contravention in the first place, it’s seems very confusing (probably on purpose) thank you again.

Hello, following up again on my earlier post. Have finally got confirmed that debt registered, so I submitted the TE9 form. What next steps need to be followed after this? Need to make sure I don’t miss any important milestones. Thank you for advice

You can do nothing at all to fight the PCN until you have got the process reverted to the Notice to Owner stage. So from this point on you need to be proactive as per the info in the link posted by cp8759.

@cp8759 @stamfordman
Hello again,
I’m following up on my earlier case. As you advised before, I followed the process to get to the stage of receiving the Notice to owner and want to get it right from here on. Please can you kindly advise how should I proceed further. I want to appeal the code 27 contravention as this road is not a functioning road and there are no signs or any lines/restrictions on the road and I know that other people successfully appealed this kind of contravention allegations and had the parking tickets cancelled. Please could you help further? Today, I received the NTO with the option to make an appeal. Thank you

Please to post up all sides of the NtO, redacting only yr name & address.


OK, so I presume you parked here ?
https://maps.app.goo.gl/DuGrsRFqkcLsmrYs9
The PCN was served because you were parked adjacent to a dropped kerb.  I have captured the GSV view that shows a dropped kerb on each side of the now-unused stub of road. If you were parked obstructing either of those dropped kerbs then the contravention is made out, as far as I can see.

A look at the CEO photos on the Bromley webpages, shows your car parked in the middle of the road stub, and when compared to my GSV view, clearly demonstrates a contravention. It is difficult to see how any car could park in this very small stub of a road and not block the dropped footways, frankly.

There may be a 'technical' appeal which other posters may suggest, so wait a bit to see if anything turns up.  I had a quick look on the Bromley council web pages which lists the statutory grounds for representations, but only allows one to be selected, which is not correct; an appellant can select more than one in accordance with the regulations.

See here, Chapter 2 5(2)(b) (i) and (ii)
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukdsi/2022/9780348232752/part/2/chapter/2

Would this failure not fully to follow the above regulation win at the adjudicators, London Tribunals ? One would hope so, but you'd have to risk the full PCN penalty to find out.

Photos:





The most blatantly obvious ground of appeal is that the PCN was not served, hence service of a Notice to Owner is a procedural impropriety.

@Justicenow did you see the CEO? Or did you come back to your car and not see anything untoward at all?
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

I use that road regularly and have spotted vehicles parked on that stub. It clearly is a stub, rather than a nonfunctional road.  The kerb is yellow lined. In order to park there the driver has to ignore the bollard, but I don’t think it has a keep left sign on it. It’s hard to see that parking there causes any sort of obstruction to road traffic but it does inconvenience pedestrians with wheelchairs/walking frames/buggies wishing to cross the road using the dropped kerbs.

Will be fascinating to see the outcome.