Author Topic: Bristol CAZ - notice after no response to unreceived PCN  (Read 693 times)

0 Members and 211 Guests are viewing this topic.

Bristol CAZ - notice after no response to unreceived PCN
« on: »
Hi,

I have received the attached letter.  The PCN to which it refers was never received.  How should I proceed please?

Many thanks for your help.

[ Guests cannot view attachments ]

Share on Bluesky Share on Facebook


Re: Bristol CAZ - notice after no response to unreceived PCN
« Reply #1 on: »
You posted this earlier in the week but the thread seems to have disappeared??

Re: Bristol CAZ - notice after no response to unreceived PCN
« Reply #2 on: »
You posted this earlier in the week but the thread seems to have disappeared??
The thread is still there but I suspect he just didn't like the answers or questions asked.

He should respond in the original thread.

Re: Bristol CAZ - notice after no response to unreceived PCN
« Reply #3 on: »
You posted this earlier in the week but the thread seems to have disappeared??
Now I look I can't find the original thread either. Perhaps this new forum allows thread deletions?

He' posted even less info this time, which doesn't help.

Re: Bristol CAZ - notice after no response to unreceived PCN
« Reply #4 on: »
How can his post count be showing as 1 ???

Something for Ivan to look into

Re: Bristol CAZ - notice after no response to unreceived PCN
« Reply #5 on: »
I deleted the last thread as it got derailed from this question.  There are no further details to add to this query.  This letter arrived.  I don't dispute it probably happened.  What do I do about it please?

All the questions asked by others on the last thread were regarding a different historic issue that I should not have mentioned.

Re: Bristol CAZ - notice after no response to unreceived PCN
« Reply #6 on: »
All the questions asked by others on the last thread were regarding a different historic issue that I should not have mentioned.
Are you saying that an earlier Charge Certificate and subsequent Witness Statement was nothing to do with this pcn?
« Last Edit: December 16, 2023, 09:06:11 am by Neil B »

Re: Bristol CAZ - notice after no response to unreceived PCN
« Reply #7 on: »
'No further details'? How extraordinary as Bristol CC write that they have tried to contact you to no avail.

Have you moved?
If yes, did you update the DVLA vehicle address at the time or later? (often the cause of missing mail).
Has your postman been jailed for mail theft?

Please reinstate the PCN ref and vehicle registration on the letter. It is easier for experts who have 100 PCNs on the boil (as I do) to differentiate them that way and a registration plate is on public display so hardly a secret.

If you want expert help and there are plenty of us on here then you need to lay all of your cards on the table so we can see them. We can be your partners in this game but hold the cards close to your chest and you may lose as we usually hold all of the aces if there are any in the pack.




I help you pro bono (for free). I now ask that a £40 donation is made to the North London Hospice before I take over your case. I have an 85% success rate across 2,000 PCNs but some PCNs can't be beaten and I will tell you if your case looks hopeless before asking you to donate.

Re: Bristol CAZ - notice after no response to unreceived PCN
« Reply #8 on: »
There is a sticky post titled "Read This First" at the top of the Forum.

It states; Leave in the PCN number and vehicle numberplate (VRM). The ONLY things you should obscure are your name and address where they appear, NOTHING ELSE. We may need ALL sides of ALL pages but it is OK to start a case with just the front of the PCN.

So please reinstate the redacted reg number and PCN number from the posted notice.

Re: Bristol CAZ - notice after no response to unreceived PCN
« Reply #9 on: »
All the questions asked by others on the last thread were regarding a different historic issue that I should not have mentioned.
Are you saying that an earlier Charge Certificate and subsequent Witness Statement was nothing to do with this pcn?
Correct

Re: Bristol CAZ - notice after no response to unreceived PCN
« Reply #10 on: »
There is a sticky post titled "Read This First" at the top of the Forum.

It states; Leave in the PCN number and vehicle numberplate (VRM). The ONLY things you should obscure are your name and address where they appear, NOTHING ELSE. We may need ALL sides of ALL pages but it is OK to start a case with just the front of the PCN.

So please reinstate the redacted reg number and PCN number from the posted notice.

My apologies.  Please see attached.

[ Guests cannot view attachments ]

Re: Bristol CAZ - notice after no response to unreceived PCN
« Reply #11 on: »
Thanks for that. The balance on line is £129 which is I think the £9 which should have been paid for entering and the £120 for the PCN.


upload

A charge certificate will be next and the choices are pay up or wait for the next document, the Order for Recovery, and then, provided this is correct, file a declaration that the PCN was not received.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2023, 05:23:42 pm by mrmustard »
I help you pro bono (for free). I now ask that a £40 donation is made to the North London Hospice before I take over your case. I have an 85% success rate across 2,000 PCNs but some PCNs can't be beaten and I will tell you if your case looks hopeless before asking you to donate.

Re: Bristol CAZ - notice after no response to unreceived PCN
« Reply #12 on: »
'No further details'? How extraordinary as Bristol CC write that they have tried to contact you to no avail.

Have you moved?
If yes, did you update the DVLA vehicle address at the time or later? (often the cause of missing mail).
Has your postman been jailed for mail theft?

Please reinstate the PCN ref and vehicle registration on the letter. It is easier for experts who have 100 PCNs on the boil (as I do) to differentiate them that way and a registration plate is on public display so hardly a secret.

If you want expert help and there are plenty of us on here then you need to lay all of your cards on the table so we can see them. We can be your partners in this game but hold the cards close to your chest and you may lose as we usually hold all of the aces if there are any in the pack.

To answer your points in turn:
1. No further details.  This is the first post regarding this PCN.  This is not the first time post from Bristol CC has failed to arrive.
2. Moved - no.
3. Details with DVLA are just fine, and have been since before the CAZ came into force.  They have successfully managed to send post regarding this vehicle in the past, and succeeded with this letter.
4. Postman jailed - not to my knowledge.
5. Done.  Attached to an earlier response.  Attached again here.

Thank you all for your time and help.

[ Guests cannot view attachments ]

Re: Bristol CAZ - notice after no response to unreceived PCN
« Reply #13 on: »
Edit - the 2018 TPT case referred to has been attached and also Regulation 8 of the RUC regulations.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/1783/regulation/8/made



OK, so we know where we are now.

So, no PCN was received, but this letter then arrived advising you that the period to pay or submit reps was fast approaching.
First question is, is the address on this letter the same as the one on your V5 Registration Certificate for the vehicle ?

Second question is what are the circumstances that gave rise to this PCN ? Presumably you are aware of the Bristol CAZ ?

Finally, if you eventually do decide to take them to the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, there are three things to present in your appeal, any one of which should see the PCN cancelled on the basis of "procedural impropriety"

1. The use of an 0870 phone number for paymentis unlawful.  This is because every time a PCN  recipient uses it to pay a PCN, the phone service provider passes a "bung" to Bristol, (this being a percentage of the call cost).  A court case some years ago held that requesting more money than defined in law was unlawful; a PCN can only request the penalty charge and nothing else.

2. The PCN is unlawful because it is demanding the CAZ toll in addition to the penalty charge. As per 1 above, this is unlawful; under the Road User Charging regulations, a PCN can only request the penalty charge and nothing else. This is supported by an adjudication in 2018, which has just come to light.

3. Their letter to you is unlawful because it is outside the process defined in law.  This defines exactly what a council can send to a PCN recipient.

Any of the above is procedural impropriety and a reason for cancellation of the PCN.

The downside of taking them to the TPT is the discount option is lost if you take them there,

[ Guests cannot view attachments ]
« Last Edit: December 16, 2023, 11:21:06 pm by Incandescent »

Re: Bristol CAZ - notice after no response to unreceived PCN
« Reply #14 on: »
Edit - the 2018 TPT case referred to has been attached and also Regulation 8 of the RUC regulations.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/1783/regulation/8/made



OK, so we know where we are now.

So, no PCN was received, but this letter then arrived advising you that the period to pay or submit reps was fast approaching.
First question is, is the address on this letter the same as the one on your V5 Registration Certificate for the vehicle ?

Second question is what are the circumstances that gave rise to this PCN ? Presumably you are aware of the Bristol CAZ ?


Q1 - yes
Q2 - yes, so circumstances are that we forgot to pay on this occasion (which is provably a very rare occurence).

Thank you.