Author Topic: PCN charge - Taxi Rank George Lane  (Read 127 times)

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rh.95

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PCN charge - Taxi Rank George Lane
« on: November 24, 2024, 11:48:58 am »
Hi @mrmustard, I have seen that you helped “flash2005” wife with his PCN on 23/11/2023 on South Woodford, George Lane (number plate: YU02SEF), where you won the appeal on 7/04/2024 as the council notified you this PCN was cancelled. Unfortunately, in very similar circumstances to “flash2005” whilst I was driving my fathers car I received a PCN when parking on the same spot in the taxi rank and I was wondering if it worth appealing and risk paying £130 or just paying £65 whilst the price is discounted. Unfortunately, there are no signs on the floor/ writing that these 3 specific bays are taxi ranks, all the other bays on the road (both sides of George Lane) are parking bays and the disabled parking bays have signs/ writing saying “disabled” on them, and as per attached google drive images, the actual sign which says that the 3 bays are taxi ranks sits at the very top and its in such small writing that you can barely see it, it was also raining outside as well, therefore much poor visibility and even harder to read small text especially when it is raining outside. (I personally think this is completely designed to catch people out, because why its not the lowest sign or in big writing like the other two signs is beyond me). Additionally to “flash2005” wife I am also dyslexic (I have a report to prove it too which I can happily provide). Additionally you can see the taxi rank outside M&S (please see link attached) is yellow and clearly a taxi rank, therefore this is ambiguous.

Having read your message/ reply on 29/2/24 on the thread I can see that your argument/ grounds to appeal this PCN was due to a procedural impropriety. In short, due to the council not clicking on external links with evidence your “flash2005” attached and tracking the number of times they clicked on the links (which they did not) and then referencing other cases whereby council have cancelled charges due to not reviewing all the evidence provided, and that the notice to owner non-compliant.
 
Therefore, would it be fair to say this case is reliant on hoping the council aren’t thorough with their procedures (such as not clicking external links and us tracking that etc), and then catching them out on that? Also as per the Civil Enforcement Handbook V2 The contravention occurs when a vehicle that it is not a licensed taxi with a licence plate on the rear waits on a taxi rank marked ‘TAXIS’and this did not have the writing.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/pLZTf3ckBeQiTZX27 parked outside of The Woodford (formerly Slug and Lettuce).

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stamfordman

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mrmustard

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Re: PCN charge - Taxi Rank George Lane
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2024, 12:32:49 pm »
I  like to start by seeing a full copy of both sides of the pcn please. Don't hide anything
I help you pro bono (for free). I only ask that a donation is made to the North London Hospice if you can afford it and if you win. I have an 85% success rate across 2,000 PCNs but some PCNs can't be beaten and I will tell you if your case looks hopeless.

rh.95

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Re: PCN charge - Taxi Rank George Lane
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2024, 06:53:17 pm »
hi @stamfordman thanks for your input, thats very helpful
hi @mrmustard, please see attached. Many thanks.


mrmustard

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Re: PCN charge - Taxi Rank George Lane
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2024, 10:46:24 am »
Personally I think most adjudicators will find the signage to be adequate when the thick yellow line on the ground is taken into account but that is me guessing the future and what the particular adjudicator would think and they all think differently.

The PCN contains a wording error, the 28 days should refer to the date of the alleged contravention.
When I first raised this argument it was a winner with 3 different adjudicators and then they all changed their minds on later cases and now refuse.

The best argument is that the Redbridge website is an absolute assault course to navigate with a requirement to say that about a dozen reasons why the PCN will not be cancelled rather than asking why it should be. It also doesn't offer the chance to upload a document if you are a Firefox user. I think it is in breach of the council's duty to be procedurally fair. I have used this argument before but it has not yet been considered in detail. The outcome is uncertain and when coupled with a contravention which I think occurred it reduces the chances of a technical argument being allowed.

I'm not taking on extra tribunal work at the moment. I have 9 this week, I can't go on at this pace.
I help you pro bono (for free). I only ask that a donation is made to the North London Hospice if you can afford it and if you win. I have an 85% success rate across 2,000 PCNs but some PCNs can't be beaten and I will tell you if your case looks hopeless.

rh.95

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Re: PCN charge - Taxi Rank George Lane
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2024, 12:59:17 pm »
hi @mrmustard, thanks for getting back to me. For clarification I parked outside The Woodford (previous known as Slug and Lettuce) which was in the white bays, not the yellow bays outside of M&S.

That is no problem if you cannot take on anything more, thank you for considering it and its good that you know your own capacity.

So based on your response, am I right in concluding that you do not think it is unlikely I'd win the appeal? Despite, the cluttering of signs, the taxi sign being at the top and unreadable, despite there being no markings on the ground saying "taxi" and not complying with the civil enforcement handbook, the appalling Redbridge website, the error on the pcn etc.?

many thanks @mrmustard

mrmustard

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Re: PCN charge - Taxi Rank George Lane
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2024, 03:21:37 pm »
No expert on here can do anything other than consider how a particular adjudicator, and we don't know who we get in advance, will decide the matter on the day. Some are generous, others are strict.

We can be 90% sure of winning or losing before the eharing and get the opposite answer.

It doesn't help you at all if I say I think I am 40% likely to win as the answer is always 100% or zero%
I help you pro bono (for free). I only ask that a donation is made to the North London Hospice if you can afford it and if you win. I have an 85% success rate across 2,000 PCNs but some PCNs can't be beaten and I will tell you if your case looks hopeless.

rh.95

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Re: PCN charge - Taxi Rank George Lane
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2024, 08:23:24 pm »
hi @mrmustard thanks for the reply, I appreciate that you cant guess whether you'll get someone who is lenient or strict. What I will do is appeal the decision with the points made here and the points @stamfordman made about clutter, because if I lose the appeal then I still get the discounted penalty, not the full penalty, so worth a try.

Many thanks