Free Traffic Legal Advice

I have been parking in Brent in front of my residence for the last 15 years and have had the on road parking permit , I did a change of vehicle on the new council parking website which they outsourced to Ringo recently , the site is extremely user unfriendly and changing a vehicle is not straight fwd  at all , due to this once I made the change I sent an email to brent parking as below and they replied that it was changed ok failing to mention to me at that point these changes for some reason will get reverted in 28 days back to the vehicle I no longer have!  After 28 days passed they issued me £65 fines for three consecutive days. On the third day only I noticed only the tickets on the screens and called them , it turned out the correct process was to delete the old vehicle on the site and add the new one , no where in the site this was mentioned in fact they gave an option to change the vehicle and did not clearly mention about the 28 day rule , I saw online on a neighbourhood forum, a number of people complaining about the same issue.


I appealed on the fine and the letter for all three fine has come back rejecting the appeal. I had to pay the first one because of the 14 day rule and fine going up I have two more to pay but simply cannot afford it at the moment.



I think I could not have been more clearer in my email sent to them and their reply was not clear, is there any way I can contest this further ?


My email sent to them :


I want to register a new residential vehicle actually change my current one from

XXXXXXX.

TO

XXXXXX

This is the only vehicle I have now. I changed it on the site but I'm not sure if the change is permanent or not?

Please can you help me.

Regards


Their Reply:

Thank you for your email.

I can see from our system that you have been able to make your purchase no online.

If you have any problems, please contact us on 0208-290-8300 and pick option 3.

Apologies for the inconvenience this has caused.

Kind Regards


Permit Officer
NSL Part of Marston Holdings
on behalf Brent Council
www.Brent.gov.uk



I sent the above as evidence in the appeal but they rejected an replied back with :



I write with reference to your recent correspondence received in connection with the above Penalty Charge Notice (PCN). Your informal challenge has been considered by this office in accordance with the requirements of the Traffic Management Act 2004. After a careful consideration of the grounds you have made and all other related circumstances, the decision has been made not to cancel your PCN. The reason for the rejection may be summarised as follows: The PCN was issued as the vehicle was observed parked in a permit space or zone without a valid virtual permit or clearly displaying a valid physical permit where required. In your correspondence you have stated that your vehicle has a valid permit to park. Please be advised that a change of the vehicle registration in respect of a parking permit is only valid for 28 days as per automatic message the permit holder would have received after making the amendment. After 28 days, the permit will revert back to the original vehicle. A new permit was not obtained until 5th March 2024. Information on parking permits can be found on your permit account, on the Brent Council website
brent.gov.uk/parking
or by calling the permit section during the office hours on
020 8 290 8300
or by emailing
parking.permits@brent.gov.uk
A valid permit was not clearly displayed inside the vehicle at the time of the contravention and no match was found for the vehicle on the permit system. There is a high demand for permit holder parking bays within the zone and therefore it is necessary to keep these bays clear for valid permit holders who clearly display a valid permit or have booked a valid permit online (virtual permit). Only residents are able to book residents parking permits and visitors parking permits, which will allow them and visitors to park in the roads where parking is permitted within the zone. Due consideration has been given to the information provided, however, Brent Council is satisfied that the PCN was correctly issued and that the contravention occurred in this case. I have enclosed some photographs taken at the time the contravention occurred for your information. You may refer to
https://brent.tarantoportal.com
to view all of the photographs taken of the contravention. Please read and understand the following important information. The discounted rate of (£65.00) will be accepted if payment is received within 14 days from the date of this letter, thereafter the full rate of (£130.00) will be due. If the PCN has not been paid within 28 days from the date of the notice being issued the Council will serve a Notice to Owner (NTO) to the DVLA registered keeper of the vehicle. The form offers the DVLA registered keeper the chance to make a formal representation or pay the full charge of (£130.00). If your representation is rejected at the NTO stage, the registered keeper may appeal against the council`s decision on specified grounds within 28 days beginning with the date of service of the Rejection Notice to the Environment and Traffic Adjudicator. The Council’s policy is to only consider one informal challenge. Therefore, should further correspondence be received before a NTO has been served, it may remain unanswered. If the PCN is paid in full before the NTO is issued, the case will be closed and there will no longer be a right to appeal further. How to pay • Online at
www.brent.gov.uk/parking
. Please follow the online instructions. • By phone
0208 099 0700
using a debit or credit card. • By post Cheques must be made out to London Borough of Brent and sent to London Borough of Brent, Parking Services, PO Box 210, Sheffield, S98 1NE. Please ensure that the PCN number and the vehicle registration number are clearly written on the back of the cheque. • In person By cash or card at the London Borough of Brent Car Pound Marston NSL Car Pound, 10 Lumen Road, East Lane Business Park, Wembley, HA9 7RE. The office is open between 9.30am and 7.00pm, Monday to Friday. If you pay by cash, please ensure you obtain a receipt. REMEMBER: YOU MUST ACT WITHIN 14 DAYS TO RECEIVE YOUR DISCOUNT

I went to seek guidance and help about the confusing 28 day rule and I was assured I had changed my reg correctly as per email above, is there a case of misguiding or not correctly providing information to the query asked? This has resulted in cost of £195 to me , can I take up a claim against the company outsourced to reply to query emails i.e 'NSL Part of Marston Holdings' or is there a way to still avoid this fine even after the council's rejection letter.

Any help or advise will be much appreciated , I have a few more days until the 14 days is up for the other fines.

Regards


i12b3

Hi Mike thanks for your reply , I didn't get towed ... the vehicle was driven between the 1st & 2nd pcn in the weekend but parked back in the same road   .... I already had to pay the fine for the first day (£65) as the letter came on 24th April so the alleged contravention on 01/03 (Fri) is paid and then the below 2 for 04/03 and 05/03 (Mon & Tues) are outstanding and due (£130) by 19/05 and the vehical wasn't moved between the 2nd and 3rd PCN , the weekends there are no charges and I noticed the tickets only on Tuesday 05/03.

The reason I didn't take any action after 01/03 as I stupidly thought that I could rely on the above posted email as evidence to quash this fine ,but clearly I was mistaken and this was only properly sorted after a call to brent parking on 05/03

Please see below images of the fines /letters received for 04/03 and 05/03


https://imgur.com/a/sj7urUe


In the above reply letter they argue that they notified me about the 28 day rule via email , while that is true there was no clear options on the website to make a permeant change which I wanted to do and that is the reason why I emailed Brent parking , their email reply is my original post which incorrectly indicated that  I made a correct changes, this is clearly misleading and appears to be just a stock reply, I reached out to them over the phone on Tuesday and a rude advisor was able to talk me through on what to do i.e. delete the old vehicle and add the new one but no where in the site or any email prior to the appeal letter  are there clear instructions  on how to permanently remove an old vehicle and add a new one...see screenshot below from the site.

https://imgur.com/a/bClSNG8


At this stage I want to know that the council state in their letter that I have recourse to no further appeals but I want to know if there is a way to challenge this based on the above facts and evidence.


Thanks & Regards

i12b3

@i12b3 it seems to me that you have compelling reasons to pursue this, I would definitely wait for the notice to owner. Let us know when you get it and I will draft something for you.

Thank you very much @cp8759 ... I will post here once I get the NTO.

I have never been to that stage with a council so  want to know if hey still do not accept the appeal at that stage does that mean I have to pay the full £130 for each ? How long does it take for the NTO to come through and does it show up negatively in a mortgage application / credit check?



Regards

i2b3

Hi

I have now received the NTK for the two outstanding fines please see below

04/03/24:
https://imgur.com/a/GzOjpHi

05/03/24:
https://imgur.com/a/WSQFGkJ

@cp8759 can you please help me draft a response , their refusal letter to the initial appeal is in the above post

Facts of the matter:
1. I have parked on the same street since the past 15 years always buying and paying for a residence parking permit ( I can provide all the previous purchase evidence to support this 
2. On Dec 23 my vehicle with a valid residence parking permit was stolen , After I got my new vehicle I attempted to register my new car in the system , the process was not straight forward at all as Brent have recently outsourced their parking system to Ringo. the issues faced by residence is well documented all over social media and local community posts. I wrote to Ringo/ Brent parking seeking help and confirmation weather I have done a correct change of vehicle clearly stating in the email what I wanted to do as shown in the post above.
3. Brent Parking replied with a stock reply which led me to believe  that I have applied the changes correctly.
4. Brent proceeded to issue me  fines on consecutive days , in their appeal response letter they have again sent a stock reply that I was notified that the change of vehicle will expire after 28 days , while that is true that the information was sent to me by email when I applied to change the vehicle the process to remove an old vehicle and add a new one to get rid of this 28 day expiry is not clear on the site and I was only able to do it after I called Brent, I work in IT and even I have struggled to find the right information / steps to do this step on their site .
5. My reason for email Brent parking was to get my new vehicle added and not revert back to a vehicle I no longer have , Brent have a duty of care to provide their customers with the right information when an enquiry is made and on this occasion they failed to do so and are attempting to fine me for it as well .
6. In addition to the residence permit I also have a valid residence visitor parking permit and a blue badge for my disabled son, had I known that the change wasn't permeant I could have used any of these as well.
7. Three Fine were  issued in total as a result of the misinformation of brent parking , PCN was observed on 01/03 Fri , I drove the vehicle on that day  and appealed and upon refusal I paid the fine of £65 for 01/03, I did not move the vehicle between 04/03 and 05/03 and called up Brent on the 5th to sort the matter out by phone when I noticed the 2 more PCNs on my car window.
8. On the day for the issue of the fine I still had a valid permit just not on the right vehicle as it reverted back after 28 days as mentioned above.

Ok thanks I will gather this and PM you

Thanks

@cp8759

As you requested I gathered everything I could and sent it all to you via pm with a google drive link , while examining things closely I think I unearthed a deliberate attempt at deception on brent parking , please see summary in pm   and accompanying docs in google drive with meaningful names , do let me know if you have any further questions

Many thanks in advance for your help

Kind Regards

@i12b3 I've knocked up a draft which I will share via google drive, but for everyone's benefit here is the text:




Assuming they reject, you'll need to give a much more detailed account of:

1) What steps you took to carry out the temporary change of permit
2) What steps you took to permanently change the permit once you called the council for help.

For now make representations online and upload the three documents I've shared with you, in the text box for the representation just write this:


Keep a screenshot of the confirmation page.

I received the notice of rejection for both PCNs , again no consideration to what was said in the appeal that their email misguided me and their site had no clear instructions on how to change this after making a change of the system from Brent to Ringo just a  and a bog standard reply to both , see letters below , is it worth pursing this in tribunal? If I lose in Tribunal will I have to pay 130 each rather than 65?



https://imgur.com/a/vpl52NP

https://imgur.com/a/kD5wCR1

Regards

i12b3