Author Topic: Brent, code 16 parked in a permit zone on event day, Windermere Avenue, on street parking bay  (Read 6133 times)

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Hi

Just came across this website.

Unfortunately I have already sent my challenge off to the council, but thought it would still be useful to share my case below.

I parked within a CPZ on an event day, in a bay with no clear signage within 30m. I now have a ticket for £160, or £80 if I pay within 14 days.

My challenge is below:

Dear Sir/Madam, Re: PCN xxxxxxxxx, Issued on 7 June 2025 – Windermere Avenue

I am writing to formally challenge the above Penalty Charge Notice (PCN), issued on 7 June 2025 on Windermere Avenue. I believe the PCN was issued unfairly due to unclear and inadequate signage.

I was surprised and disappointed to receive the notice, as I made every effort to park responsibly and within what I believed were unrestricted conditions. On 7 June, I parked on the left-hand side of Windermere Avenue near the shops, having carefully checked around my bay for any parking restrictions. While I did notice a permit holders only sign near the station as I drove up the road, its positioning - set back from Windermere Avenue - and angle suggested it applied only to the small road behind it, not the main stretch of Windermere Avenue where I parked.

No permit-related signage was visible near my bay. The only parking sign nearby referred to electric vehicle charging and did not indicate any permit requirement on either side of the road. I also observed other vehicles parked nearby without permits, none of which were ticketed at the time, or upon my return — further adding to the confusion.

After receiving the PCN, I used Google Earth to measure the distance to the nearest relevant sign, which is over 35 metres away. This sign is also angled parallel to the direction of traffic on Windermere Road, making it extremely difficult to see or read - especially when driving along the same side of the road as the shops. Please see the attached photo for reference.

Under section 3.14 of the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016 (TSRGD), "a single sign must be clearly visible and not compromise enforcement or safety, with two signs preferable where visibility is limited." The sign’s placement fails this standard, rendering the restriction unclear and unenforceable.

While I understand that Controlled Parking Zones are usually marked by entry signs, the presence of occasional signs within the zone creates a reasonable expectation that local signage will clarify restrictions - particularly for drivers unfamiliar with the area, like myself. I contend that the signage does not meet the legal requirement for clear visibility as per TSRGD 2016.

Had the restriction been clearly indicated at the bay, I evidently would not have parked there.

In addition, I am <young> and work as a xxxxx. I also work weekend shifts as xxxxx to save for university in London next year. The £80 fine (or £160 if unpaid within the discount period) represents a significant financial burden, equivalent to over a day’s pay.

I respectfully request cancellation of this PCN due to inadequate signage. I hope you will exercise discretion given my circumstances.

Yours sincerely,

xxxxxx

Images are below:









From Brent's own CPZ FAQ's:



Which implies all the signage should be clearly marked

Looking forward to hearing from you all

Thanks in advance!

Videos:





Location:

https://maps.app.goo.gl/RKAsZgZESU84r42D8
« Last Edit: October 29, 2025, 11:10:57 pm by cp8759 »

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The sign you posted looks like a permit parking area not a CPZ.

What is the Google Maps location and are there more council pics with any signage.

 

 

Just added the Google Maps/Earth link

Here is a link to the event day parking restrictions:

https://www.brent.gov.uk/-/media/files/resident-documents/parking-roads-and-transport-document/all-cpzs-map.pdf?rev=edc3b80a2809458bacbbefff27a38c7e


I parked in the highlighted area
« Last Edit: October 29, 2025, 11:11:25 pm by cp8759 »



Is the council photo. The issue is that this sign was over 30m away and barely noticeable
« Last Edit: October 29, 2025, 11:11:34 pm by cp8759 »

We've come across these weird Wembley zones before - not a CPZ but a sort of reverse permit parking area as usually in small PPAs the kerbside is unrestricted for residents and marked (and signed) bays are for other purposes (eg pay bays).

The zone looks big - how you're supposed to clock it's an event day from the entry sign and also be aware that all bays are controlled with or without nearby signs I think is poor and open to challenge. It's worth looking at tribunal cases.

« Last Edit: October 29, 2025, 11:11:43 pm by cp8759 »

Assuming you saw my original response to the council - what do you think they will respond with?

I couldn’t find any similar tribunal cases, but did see a case on here but in Barnet, although there was never a follow up post which revealed the outcome of the appeal

Stongest point is surely that there is no "Next Event" date on the entry sign. There seems to be a mounting plate for it in the photo, so maybe they do put these up, but worth investigating, I think.

OP, where's the PCN pl?

Leave in your VRM and PCN no. then we can see the council's photos. At present, I'm suffering from information overload, not all of which is relevant.

I've no idea what the 'P' sign wording is, it's certainly not prescribed. Either a sign applies to a bay or an area. If a bay, then it's these markings which give effect to the parking sign, the words 'in marked bays' therefore being redundant, hence not prescribed. If a permit parking area then it's wrong because as an 'area' restriction it has to carry '..past this point or in ** street'.

It's a huge zone and it's worth retracing your route to the parking place. They may not be able to show the event day date was displayed.

The entry signs refer to marked bays not signed bays, which I'd say is a distinction without a difference to people used to signed parking bays.

The signs in the zone are essentially repeater signs but at least one would expect a clear reminder by a busy area such where the OP was.

Also there is nothing in the zone to check for an event day such as sign plates with an event day hotline.

Here is my PCN

Thanks for your help

BT25595323
FY20MKC

Brent ticket portal

« Last Edit: October 29, 2025, 11:11:56 pm by cp8759 »

It's a huge zone and it's worth retracing your route to the parking place. They may not be able to show the event day date was displayed.

If they cannot prove this, is my case void? No way for me to check if there was an event sign displayed as I didn't check at the time

On google earth you can see the council removed a sign (opposite where I parked) which detailed where and when you could park in the bays

« Last Edit: October 29, 2025, 11:12:06 pm by cp8759 »

Can we get facts in play pl.

A stand-alone parking place indicated by prescribed road markings is situated outside 126-104 Windermere Avenue.

GSV(10 months old) shows that there isn't a traffic sign within or in the vicinity of this parking place.

Therefore there are NO parking restrictions to contravene.

It is NOT a permit parking area because it's marked but doesn't have a traffic sign. In a PPA bays are either UNMARKED parking places reserved for the permit holders on the entrance sign OR may be used by other users in accordance with the traffic sign within the MARKED areas.

You are neither.


It is NOT a permit parking area because it's marked but doesn't have a traffic sign. In a PPA bays are either UNMARKED parking places reserved for the permit holders on the entrance sign OR may be used by other users in accordance with the traffic sign within the MARKED areas.

You are neither.

Sorry I don’t quite follow. Am I at fault or are the council wrong?
« Last Edit: June 08, 2025, 07:07:38 pm by user334232 »

We've established that it isn't signed or marked as anything that is standard.

It's not a CPZ - they have all kerbsides controlled in some way

It's not a PPA as such - as I said it's sort of a reverse PPA where permit bays are marked, but PPAs have unmarked kerbsides and non-permit holders would have specific signed bays, if any such bays were put in.

It's not an RPZ (restricted parking zone).

Strangely there is nothing in the register for Windermere Avenue since 2013 but there is this - but maybe it was a CPZ back then:

2120129386

I have carefully considered the evidence adduced and I am not satisfied that the signage is adequate. I have heard the Appellant give evidence and I find this account to be credible and reliable, and supported by photographic evidence. I am satisfied that there was no signage in the bay in which his vehicle was parked, that the signage at the beginning of the street (a Controlled Parking Zone sign) would only have any relevance to his vehicle if the bay was marked as a permit bay (which I have found it was not). The parking attendant has produced photographs of the signage, but as they were taken at night it is not possible to establish where they were in relation to where the vehicle was parked.
I therefore allow the appeal.