3. BRENT - Code 01 - Parked in a restricted street during prescibed hours - Holland Road - Single Yellow but No longer a dr
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BRENT - Code 01 - Parked in a restricted street during prescibed hours - Holland Road - Single Yellow but No longer a dr
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Migrating over from PePiPoo... So waiting for NTO still... Thanks for the invite too.

But original post as follows http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=149584



PCN: https://imgur.com/a/oMPiCt3

« Last Edit: June 30, 2023, 11:58:53 am by Donmalaga_FTLA »
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Re: BRENT - Code 01 - Parked in a restricted street during prescibed hours - Holland Road - Single Yellow but No longer
« Reply #1 on: »
They did send back a lot of stuff:

These appear to be irrelevant (but others may want to check):
The Brent (Waiting and Loading Restriction) (Amendment No. 183) Order 2004
The Brent (Parking Places) (Wembley Stadium Area) (No. 1) Order 2019
The Brent (Parking Places) (Zone KL) (No. 1) Order 2019
The Brent (Parking Places) (Zone HW) (No. 1) Order 2019
The Brent (Parking Places) (Zone HW) (No. 1) Order 2023

This seems to be the order we are interested in:
The Brent (Waiting and Loading Restriction) (Amendment No. 349) Order 2010 (the key order).

The relevant entry seems to be at 954(с)(iv):

between a point 10.00 metres north-west of north-western kerb-line of All Soul's Avenue and a point 5.00 metres south-east of the south-eastern kerb-line of Lushington Road;

It seems a bit off as this overlaps a number of parking bays at this location.

Also here's The Brent (Waiting and Loading Restriction) Order 1979

I'll check over everything again once the NTO comes through.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2023, 12:49:10 pm by cp8759 »
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: BRENT - Code 01 - Parked in a restricted street during prescibed hours - Holland Road - Single Yellow but No longer
« Reply #2 on: »
Good day to you all.

OK, NTO has now been received.

Still chasing vehicle crossing to get an updated Traffic Management Order, but not getting anywhere with them so far.

I have 28 days to respond but will not be in the country, so have 11 days to send anything back!!

« Last Edit: July 14, 2023, 02:08:57 pm by Donmalaga_FTLA »
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Re: BRENT - Code 01 - Parked in a restricted street during prescibed hours - Holland Road - Single Yellow but No longer
« Reply #3 on: »
Please post up the NTO, all sides of all pages.

Also being abroad should make no difference as long as you have internet access.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: BRENT - Code 01 - Parked in a restricted street during prescibed hours - Holland Road - Single Yellow but No longer
« Reply #4 on: »
NTO

page 1 -

page 2 -

page 3 -

Page 4 -


Thanks
« Last Edit: July 14, 2023, 02:32:09 pm by Donmalaga_FTLA »
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Re: BRENT - Code 01 - Parked in a restricted street during prescibed hours - Holland Road - Single Yellow but No longer
« Reply #5 on: »
I've had to re-request the amending order in question, as nothing they have sent us justified the removal of the single yellow line and the installation of the bay.

In the meantime this is a representation you can send (attach a copy of this):

Dear London Borough of Brent,

My vehicle was issued a penalty charge for being parked on a single yellow line outside number 16 Holland Road, the purpose of that yellow line was to protect the drive to that property. On the day in question, the drive had already been removed and the single yellow line was effectively redundant. I note the council has since removed the single yellow line and replaced it with a parking bay, see the attached image.

It is therefore apparent that the yellow line had served its purpose, and enforcement of the penalty charge would serve no traffic management purpose in this instance.

I would therefore ask you to rescind the charge on this occasion.

Yours faithfully,

The council will re-offer the discount as long as they receive the representation by 26 July, and we should have the relevant amending order before you get a response.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: BRENT - Code 01 - Parked in a restricted street during prescibed hours - Holland Road - Single Yellow but No longer
« Reply #6 on: »
Hi,

Thanks for the above - not receiving email updates when this post is updated, so hence the late reply.

Is it worth throwing in a line that the TMO should have been amended when the council accepted the job to raise the kerb earlier in January 2023?

Thanks
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Re: BRENT - Code 01 - Parked in a restricted street during prescibed hours - Holland Road - Single Yellow but No longer
« Reply #7 on: »
I wouldn't bother, it's unlikely the person responding will have a clue. I'd keep that in reserve for the tribunal.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: BRENT - Code 01 - Parked in a restricted street during prescibed hours - Holland Road - Single Yellow but No longer
« Reply #8 on: »
Well I wasn't expecting that:

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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: BRENT - Code 01 - Parked in a restricted street during prescibed hours - Holland Road - Single Yellow but No longer
« Reply #9 on: »
Reads like we couldn't be bothered to update our records....!
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Re: BRENT - Code 01 - Parked in a restricted street during prescibed hours - Holland Road - Single Yellow but No longer
« Reply #10 on: »
Quote from: Donmalaga_FTLA on August 14, 2023, 06:08:39 am
Reads like we couldn't be bothered to update our records....!
More like an example of illegality. If legally it's a waiting restriction, it is unlawful for the council to paint a parking bay there.

Turning that on its head however, you could argue that unless the council can produce the amending traffic order in evidence (which they can't cos it doesn't exist), they cannot prove that it wasn't already a designated parking place when the ticket was issued.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: BRENT - Code 01 - Parked in a restricted street during prescibed hours - Holland Road - Single Yellow but No longer
« Reply #11 on: »
Further to your comment
"unless the council can produce the amending traffic order in evidence (which they can't cos it doesn't exist), they cannot prove that it wasn't already a designated parking place when the ticket was issued"

The ticket was issued with the yellow line in situ, although the drop kerb was raised months prior, so confused with the above statement.
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Re: BRENT - Code 01 - Parked in a restricted street during prescibed hours - Holland Road - Single Yellow but No longer
« Reply #12 on: »
Quote from: Donmalaga_FTLA on August 20, 2023, 05:31:28 am
Further to your comment
"unless the council can produce the amending traffic order in evidence (which they can't cos it doesn't exist), they cannot prove that it wasn't already a designated parking place when the ticket was issued"

The ticket was issued with the yellow line in situ, although the drop kerb was raised months prior, so confused with the above statement.
How does the tribunal know that the order to turn it from a waiting restriction into a parking place wasn't enacted prior to the alleged contravention? With no order in evidence, it doesn't. You're entitled to put the authority to proof on this point.

It would hardly be unprecedented for the authority to make a traffic order slightly before or slightly after the contractor goes round to change the road markings, we've seen this quite a few times.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: BRENT - Code 01 - Parked in a restricted street during prescibed hours - Holland Road - Single Yellow but No longer
« Reply #13 on: »
Evening,

Another rejection from Brent, so I guess the final hurdle?



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Re: BRENT - Code 01 - Parked in a restricted street during prescibed hours - Holland Road - Single Yellow but No longer
« Reply #14 on: »
Well, I cannot guarantee the outcome, but I'm happy to represent you at the tribunal if you want to carry on.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
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