3. Brent 53J Failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles entering a pedestrian zone,Okehampton Rd NW10 Chamberlayne Rd
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Brent 53J Failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles entering a pedestrian zone,Okehampton Rd NW10 Chamberlayne Rd
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Hi @cp8759,

I hope you can help.

I received the following PCN from Brent and would appreciate your help. After revisiting the road, I noticed that the restrictions apply during school hours. I was actually dropping off a sick note for my son at his school, which is further away. I hadn’t noticed the signs before.

Also, my 3-year-old niece kindly decided to rip up the notice while it was on my desk—apologies for the state of it! I’ve done my best to tape it back together.

Is there a way to challenge this PCN? or am I better off just paying the fine and taking the hit (which is now higher as I missed the initial 14 day discount :'( )

Many Thank you for your time and assistance.


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Re: Brent 53J Failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles entering a pedestrian zone,Okehampton Rd NW10 Chamberlayn
« Reply #1 on: »
@Mjet as per the guidance here, please re-post the PCN without redacting anything apart from your name and address.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Brent 53J Failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles entering a pedestrian zone,Okehampton Rd NW10 Chamberlayn
« Reply #2 on: »


The guidance doesnt seem to match the options I see. I hope this works better, I used Imgur. Please let me know if it doesn't show.

Many thanks

Hi @cp8759, are you able to see the PCN?

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« Last Edit: February 23, 2025, 02:17:32 pm by Mjet »
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Re: Brent 53J Failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles entering a pedestrian zone,Okehampton Rd NW10 Chamberlayn
« Reply #3 on: »
@Mjet right so it appears you were turning left:



The location is here https://maps.app.goo.gl/EDykHtWM87TpeSdZ8 but the GSV capture is several years out of date, so you will need to go back and get photos of any advance warning signs on the main road.

You have very little time, the deadline to challenge the penalty is midnight on Tuesday. I will also get hold of the traffic order.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Brent 53J Failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles entering a pedestrian zone,Okehampton Rd NW10 Chamberlayn
« Reply #4 on: »
Hi @cp8759,
Thank you, I have just popped down and taken some pictures.

The sign on the main road prior to the turn is facing away from the driver, obscuring visibility(to the left side with cars passing on the right). The pole is fixed into the ground.

https://imgur.com/a/mjet-pcn-brent-Lrl2yXU



Please let me know If you need any more pictures.

Many thanks
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Re: Brent 53J Failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles entering a pedestrian zone,Okehampton Rd NW10 Chamberlayn
« Reply #5 on: »
Talk about sign clutter !
So, there is an advance warning sign, and in a good format, but actually turned away from view by a motorist approaching for a left turn in to the restructed street.

Councils have a duty under LATOR Regulation 18 (1), not just to erect signage that adequately conveys a restriction, but to also maintain it duting the life of that restriction: -

Quote
Traffic signs
18.—(1) Where an order relating to any road has been made, the order making authority shall take such steps as are necessary to secure—

(a)before the order comes into force, the placing on or near the road of such traffic signs in such positions as the order making authority may consider requisite for securing that adequate information as to the effect of the order is made available to persons using the road;

(b)the maintenance of such signs for so long as the order remains in force; and

(c)in a case where the order revokes, amends or alters the application of a previous order, the removal or replacement of existing traffic signs as the authority considers requisite to avoid confusion to road users by signs being left in the wrong positions.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1996/2489/regulation/18
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Re: Brent 53J Failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles entering a pedestrian zone,Okehampton Rd NW10 Chamberlayn
« Reply #6 on: »
@Mjet this is the key sign:



Obviously the council accepts there is a need for an advance warning sign, would you be able to get some picture of it taken from further back?

Ideally we need a picture taken from a driver's perspective but obviously it might be hazardous for you to stand in the middle of the road. If that cannot be done safely, you might need to either drive past with a dashcam or with a passenger filming on a mobile phone. The sign would be far less visible from a driver's perspective than it would be from the pavement, and it's worth getting the best possible evidence.

It might also be helpful to get some photos taken from behind the sign as well as standing to its side, to show the angle by which it is turned towards the building line.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Brent 53J Failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles entering a pedestrian zone,Okehampton Rd NW10 Chamberlayn
« Reply #7 on: »
Hi @cp8759,
Thank you, I've taken some more pics and attempted a Video. Please view via the links below. I hope these provide what we're seeking.



https://imgur.com/a/rjMr0f1

https://imgur.com/a/mjet-pcn-brent-Lrl2yXU[/img]]


https://imgur.com/a/mjet-pcn-brent-Lrl2yXU

https://imgur.com/a/rjMr0f1[/img]]


I noticed there is another sign further up the road before the bus stop. However when there are buses stopped the drivers focus would be directed away from the signage. Unfortunetley I don't recall whether there were busses stopped on the day of the incident.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2025, 11:29:42 am by Mjet »
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Re: Brent 53J Failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles entering a pedestrian zone,Okehampton Rd NW10 Chamberlayn
« Reply #8 on: »
Your video shows the sign is now correctly positioned facing on-coming traffic, so argument on signage not so strong.
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Re: Brent 53J Failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles entering a pedestrian zone,Okehampton Rd NW10 Chamberlayn
« Reply #9 on: »
Yes, I missed that one yesterday. but the following sign just after the bus stop is the one thats facing to the left.
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Re: Brent 53J Failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles entering a pedestrian zone,Okehampton Rd NW10 Chamberlayn
« Reply #10 on: »
Well it's worth running the argument, here's a draft representation:

Dear London Borough of Brent,

I contend the alleged contravention did not occur owing to inadequate signage. I was turning left into the road and the regulatory signs are parallel to the kerbline of Chamberlayne Road, the council obviously accept the need for an advance warning sign because one has been placed before the junction. Unfortunately it is clear that the sign before the junction has been knocked out of position, I refer you to the attached images.

In light of the above the alleged contravention did not occur, it follows that the PCN must be cancelled.

Yours faithfully,


Please send the following two images with your representation:





Don't forget to take a screenshot of the confirmation page.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Brent 53J Failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles entering a pedestrian zone,Okehampton Rd NW10 Chamberlayn
« Reply #11 on: »
Hi @cp8759,
Great thanks . PCN challenged, images included and I have screen grabs of the submission.
Fingers crossed this works, again thank you for all your help :)
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Re: Brent 53J Failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles entering a pedestrian zone,Okehampton Rd NW10 Chamberlayn
« Reply #12 on: »
@Mjet just to set expectations, the overwhelming likelihood is that the representations will be rejected, but you certainly have an arguable case to pursue on appeal to the tribunal.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Brent 53J Failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles entering a pedestrian zone,Okehampton Rd NW10 Chamberlayn
« Reply #13 on: »
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Brent 53J Failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles entering a pedestrian zone,Okehampton Rd NW10 Chamberlayn
« Reply #14 on: »
Hi @cp8759,

You were right. I’ve just received the rejection notice regarding my case. I completely forgot about this, I can't beleive they took soo long to respond.

You can view the notice here:
https://imgur.com/gallery/pcn-letter-of-rejection-8KnMJRl


Could you please advise on the next steps I should take?

Many thanks,
Min

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