Author Topic: Birmingham City Council PCN  (Read 2094 times)

0 Members and 46 Guests are viewing this topic.

Birmingham City Council PCN
« on: »
Hi all,

Looking for some advice. I parked at Snow Hill Multi Storey Car Park and didn't have any cash so used the RingGo app.

Came back to the car and had a PCN for parking without a pay and display ticket. Submitted an appeal with the evidence that I paid from the app.

Fast forward to today and my appeal was rejected as I picked the number plate for my other car.

Anything I can kick back on?

Share on Bluesky Share on Facebook


Re: Birmingham City Council PCN
« Reply #1 on: »
post the PCN, your challenge and their rejection.

Their policy suggests that this one is an individual merit that should be considered first time - have you done it before.


Re: Birmingham City Council PCN
« Reply #2 on: »
I've uploaded the following:

Original PCN
Rejection letter
Proof of payment under the wrong registration/car (my car)

https://freeimage.host/i/d5ESXgs
https://freeimage.host/i/d5ESVqX
https://freeimage.host/i/d5ESGst
https://freeimage.host/i/d5ESEXI


I blanked out personal details as I didn't know what the rules were on that here.

I don't have a copy of my original appeal as it was submitted on line. The premise was "I've paid for parking so cancel the ticket", whilst I was blissfully unaware that I picked the wrong registration.

I've never done it before...no.


Re: Birmingham City Council PCN
« Reply #3 on: »
Their rejection letter looks to be the usual Fob-Off letter we see so often. All it tells you is that you have to pay for the right vehicle reg number. Well, I think we all know that when using PbP apps !!

Your case would come under the "compelling or other mitigating reasons " section. This does say it is for cases which require individual consideration, but there is no evidence of this in their reply explaining wny your mistake does not warrant cancellation of the PCN. So could you win at adjudication under "failure to consider" ? Well, it would be something of a gamble, I think, and first you would have to forego the discount and wait for the Notice to Owner and present this argument to the  council.

Re: Birmingham City Council PCN
« Reply #4 on: »
Does the Notice to Owner come after the discounted deadline appears?

Not adverse to taking the gamble - have we seen previous where tickets have been cancelled?

Re: Birmingham City Council PCN
« Reply #5 on: »
A Notice to Owner cannot be issued until 28 days after the date of the PCN in the absence of a response to the PCN, but the council have up to 6 months to serve it. I doubt it would be issued until their discount reoffer date expires. The bottom line is that if you want to fight them, you must accept that you will forego the discount.

Re: Birmingham City Council PCN
« Reply #6 on: »
They have referred you to their discretion policy, which while not well written or spelling this out in the 'may accept' column tells me that they would consider cancelling for a first time mistake with the car VRM as the 'may reject' column clearly says that such mistakes can give rise to cancellation where a PCN has been issued in 'similar circumstances' which include wrong VRM.

I would go back to them now pointing out that their 'unable to cancel' does not square with their policy on individual merits listed by them. Cancelling for a first time mistake with location/VRM is a common reason to cancel a PCN among councils as payment has been made.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2024, 10:36:11 am by stamfordman »

Re: Birmingham City Council PCN
« Reply #7 on: »
I'm happy to forgo the discount.

I've gone back to them RE: it doesn't square with their policy. Not expecting a response. Will wait for the notice to owner to arrive.

Re: Birmingham City Council PCN
« Reply #8 on: »
Today is the deadline for the discounted payment and I got a response from going back to the council RE: it doesn't square with their policy:

https://freeimage.host/i/dVWtvCN
https://freeimage.host/i/dVWteQp
https://freeimage.host/i/dVWtOjR


I was bloody dreaming about getting parking tickets last night  ;D

FYI - My initial letter was very much you've made a mistake cancel it and stop wasting my time. Even that proved that I wasn't aware I had selected my other car.

Thoughts on the response? Just a default...what sort of information would I include in the response to the notice to owner? What are my chances of getting this overturned?

Re: Birmingham City Council PCN
« Reply #9 on: »
Well it boils down to whether you are cross enough about this to punt £25. If it were me I'd do it and quote their policy to them verbatim at NTO stage and point out the obvious reference to the first time cancellation for such mistakes. If they rely on their policy they must live or die by it.

If they still reject and you appeal (no brainer if they withdraw the discount) they will have to prepare an evidence pack for the tribunal with this policy which will cost them more than £25. You can then see if an adjudicator reads it as I have and if you lose it's still just £25.

I think they won't contest it or if they do won't include the policy in the pack.

See what others say.


Re: Birmingham City Council PCN
« Reply #10 on: »
My initial letter was very much you've made a mistake cancel it and stop wasting my time.

Pl post. I wonder if the tone p****d them off!

Anyway, IMO contravention did not occur.

Alleged contravention:
Parked in a car park without displaying ........

You cannot display if you pay by phone. The correct contravention is:
'parked without payment of the parking charge'


Re: Birmingham City Council PCN
« Reply #11 on: »


My initial letter was very much you've made a mistake cancel it and stop wasting my time.

Pl post. I wonder if the tone p****d them off!

Anyway, IMO contravention did not occur.

Alleged contravention:
Parked in a car park without displaying ........

You cannot display if you pay by phone. The correct contravention is:
'parked without payment of the parking charge'



I definitely p****d them off :D

Re: Birmingham City Council PCN
« Reply #12 on: »
Thanks for the feedback.

The NtO has now arrived. Links below:

https://freeimage.host/i/1000069037.d4XVgDX
https://freeimage.host/i/1000069038.d4XVQUl
https://freeimage.host/i/1000069040.d4XVSRI
https://freeimage.host/i/1000069041.d4XVtJ2

Is there a template I can use to respond or would I just include the advice listed below in my response:

1)Alleged contravention:
Parked in a car park without displaying ........

You cannot display if you pay by phone. The correct contravention is:
'parked without payment of the parking charge

2)
- quote their policy to them verbatim at NTO stage and point out the obvious reference to the first time cancellation for such mistakes. If they rely on their policy they must live or die by it.
- referred you to their discretion policy, which while not well written or spelling this out in the 'may accept' column tells me that they would consider cancelling for a first time mistake with the car VRM as the 'may reject' column clearly says that such mistakes can give rise to cancellation where a PCN has been issued in 'similar circumstances' which include wrong VRM.
- "compelling or other mitigating reasons " section. This does say it is for cases which require individual consideration, but there is no evidence of this in their reply explaining wny your mistake does not warrant cancellation of the PCN. So could you win at adjudication under "failure to consider" ?


Happy to take on board any other advice  8)

Re: Birmingham City Council PCN
« Reply #13 on: »
I would go with both - draft something and we'll tweak it.

Re: Birmingham City Council PCN
« Reply #14 on: »
First Draft - Let me know what you think:

To whom this way concern,

I am writing to formally challenge Penalty Charge Notice BM40248575 issued on 22nd July 2024.
 
I request the PCN’s cancellation based on the following:

Compelling or Other Mitigating Reasons
Birmingham City Council’s discretion policy includes a section titled “compelling or other mitigating reasons,” which outlines that cases requiring individual consideration may warrant cancellation. I do not believe that the response provided by the Council sufficiently considered the circumstances or the mitigating factors in my case. There was no clear explanation as to why my first-time mistake did not justify cancellation, indicating a potential failure to consider the individual merits of my situation.

Incorrect Contravention Code
The alleged contravention cited as: "Parked in a car park without clearly displaying a valid pay and display ticket or voucher or parking clock". However, I paid for my parking using the Pay by Phone service, which does not require a physical ticket to be displayed. Given that there was no requirement to display a ticket, the correct contravention code should have been: "Parked without payment of the parking charge." As I complied with the parking terms by paying via phone, this penalty appears unjustified. I respectfully ask that you reconsider this error.

Birmingham City Council's Policy on First-Time Mistakes
In my appeal, I wish to reference Birmingham City Council’s own policy regarding the handling of Penalty Charge Notices.
 
The policy clearly states that for first-time mistakes, such as issues with vehicle registration or payment, there is a provision for cancelling the charge. Specifically, at the Notice to Owner (NTO) stage, it is stated that:

"In cases of first-time contraventions where a mistake has been made, including incorrect Vehicle Registration Mark (VRM) or method of payment errors, we may cancel the PCN."

Birmingham City Council’s policy also refers to the consideration of "similar circumstances" where mistakes such as incorrect VRM can lead to cancellation. It is clear that my case falls within these guidelines, as this is the first time such an error has occurred. Therefore, in line with your discretion policy, I urge you to cancel this PCN.

Given the above points and the lack of evidence showing that my case was considered under the "compelling or other mitigating reasons" category, I believe I have grounds for cancellation of this PCN. Should this matter proceed to adjudication, I am confident that the adjudicator will recognise the failure to appropriately apply your own discretion policy and the fact I have made a payment for time spent in the car park and cancel the PCN on that basis.

I look forward to your favourable response and the cancellation of this Penalty Charge Notice.