Author Topic: Barnet Council - Winnington Rd - Code 01 - Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours  (Read 1747 times)

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On the 31st of August 2025, the driver parked my Grey Nissan at 9:26am

How could you or they be so precise? Who, without reason, notes with such accuracy when they park?

There are 2 signs. The CEO took a photo of one having presumably gone there straight from issuing the PCN. Your wife meanwhile went to a sign and seeing the times 'returned to the car to move it'.

So, this must have been the other sign because she didn't see the CEO.

You would be asking an adjudicator to accept that:

You wife parked at 9.26am, got out of the car and walked in the direction of sign no. 1, found it, read the times and 'then walked back to the car to move it but found a PCN already left on the windscreen', a PCN issued at 9.27am. While she was away from the car the CEO arrived, presumably from the opposite direction, observed the car, entered details in their HHC, produced a PCN, placed it in an envelope which was then put under the windscreen and photographed at 9.28. They then went to sign no.2 while your wife was returning to the car. There's an element of Brian Rix to these events.

Anyway, the key for me is that whereas all the CEO's photos and movements are timed objectively, your wife's are not, unless she has photos of the PCN at 9.29 when she returned to the car?

If all the uncorroborated elements are stripped out then all that remains is the CEO's photos and the PCN.

I would find it more plausible if she parked, did not note the time, went to sign no.1, saw the times, looked at her watch which showed 9.29, decided that it would be pointless returning to her car, left and returned later to find a PCN.

But your account is your account.

Personally, I'd approach this without reference to uncorroborated references.

Authority confirmed that contravention is instantaneous. B******s. The CEO is obliged to consider whether any exemptions might apply, namely 'loading' and 'boarding'. If you ask for the council's policy, I'm certain you'll find that at least 2 minutes' obs is required. This would have taken the CEO to 9.29 which, in accordance with London Councils' procedures, would mean that a PCN should not be issued. Put this to the council in formal reps and see what response you get.

You're not compiling War and Peace or a submission to the Supreme Court. The time you have available is more than enough IMO to draft reps for review here, amend if necessary and submit.

Frankly, I'd leave your wife out of this(or adopt the alternative narrative I posited above) because I don't think her detail helps much. 

But it's your PCN and your account.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2025, 05:07:44 pm by H C Andersen »

I agree with Mr Andersen.

Someone's trousers could go missing.


If all the uncorroborated elements are stripped out then all that remains is the CEO's photos and the PCN.

[...]

Personally, I'd approach this without reference to uncorroborated references.

Authority confirmed that contravention is instantaneous. B******s. The CEO is obliged to consider whether any exemptions might apply, namely 'loading' and 'boarding'. If you ask for the council's policy, I'm certain you'll find that at least 2 minutes' obs is required. This would have taken the CEO to 9.29 which, in accordance with London Councils' procedures, would mean that a PCN should not be issued. Put this to the council in formal reps and see what response you get.

The time you have available is more than enough IMO to draft reps for review here, amend if necessary and submit.


Thank you so much. I'll start to draft reps and post for review here, amend if necessary and submit before the 28 days (19 Dec).

Is it worth mentioning again as a point in the appeal the set of photo evidence by the CEO? Photos of: 1) my car not at all next to any timeplate visible in the surroundings, 2) a zoomed photo of a timeplate without my car in the vicinity, 3) enlarged photo of the timeplate and surroundings, with a totally different car (Mercedes) underneath the timeplate and again no presence at all of my car (Nissan) in the whole background.

More in general, there's anything I can save from my informal challenges (rejected twice) and maybe reuse for the formal representations? This is the 2nd letter I sent to the Council to informally challenge the PCN. Posting it for review and feedback.
Link --> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hh7QINy2PDErJR-HwoD9aYPE21eMhEvFbqDzj2770Qw/edit?usp=sharing



I would stick with these objective details:

The alleged contravention relates to a simple waiting restriction.
The PCN states 'Observed from 9.27 to 9.27'.
The PCN also gives the time of contravention as 9.27.
The law provides exemptions from the waiting restriction, namely loading(including being away from the vehicle) and alighting/boarding(including being assisted).

I submit that the CEO could not have held a reasoned belief that a contravention had occurred at 9.27 because they had not observed the vehicle for a length of time sufficient to have examined and eliminated the possibility that an exemption applied and therefore the vehicle was permitted to be parked at the location. While the period necessary to establish an exemption is not prescribed, the council, and therefore the CEO, are obliged to act fairly and in accordance with council policies. I doubt that the authority could or would be prepared to present a policy to the adjudicator which states that an observation period is not required in the case of a simple waiting restriction.

In short, the CEO was, I'm sorry to say, trigger happy and that instead of deciding that any reasonable observation period would take them to 9.29 and that after printing and service would take them to 9.30 at which time they would photograph the vehicle to prove service and therefore fall within London Councils' guidance preventing PCNs being issued so close to when the restriction ended, in this case at 9.30, they acted prematurely.

The penalty in this case clearly exceeds the amount applicable in the circumstances of the case.

Is my take.

My fear is that you'll want to go into minutiae which in return would allow the authority to do likewise and ignore/overlook the procedural issues.

IMO, stay detached. Act ONLY upon what you as the RK can see in the photos and PCN and, sorry to say, ignore your wife's recollections which IMO carry limited evidential weight.


My fear is that you'll want to go into minutiae which in return would allow the authority to do likewise and ignore/overlook the procedural issues.

IMO, stay detached. Act ONLY upon what you as the RK can see in the photos and PCN and, sorry to say, ignore your wife's recollections which IMO carry limited evidential weight.

Thank you very much H C Andersen, spot on, I normally tend to go into minutiae, so here I will have to do my best to be direct and concise. Please review this draft and let me know what you think. I'll amend it if necessary and submit it.

I assume nothing from my informal challenge (Link --> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hh7QINy2PDErJR-HwoD9aYPE21eMhEvFbqDzj2770Qw/edit?usp=sharing) is worth being saved and reused (please advise if otherwise), and I will stick to your points only.

I'm quite new to this game, so I appreciate your patience in correcting; wording and general tone might not be the right one.

---
The alleged contravention relates to a simple waiting restriction.

The PCN states 'Observed from 9.27 to 9.27'. The PCN also gives the time of contravention as 9.27. This confirms that no observation period whatsoever was carried out.

A Civil Enforcement Officer (CEO) is required to form a reasoned belief that a contravention has occurred and obliged to consider whether any statutory exemptions might apply. The law provides exemptions from the waiting restriction, namely loading (including being away from the vehicle) and alighting/boarding (including being assisted). At least 2 reasonable minutes of observation are required. This would have taken the CEO to 9.29 which, in accordance with London Councils' procedures, would mean that a PCN should not be issued.

I submit that the CEO could not have held a reasoned belief that a contravention had occurred at 9.27, because they had not observed the vehicle for a length of time sufficient to have examined and eliminated the possibility that an exemption applied and therefore the vehicle was permitted to be parked at the location.

While the period necessary to establish an exemption is not prescribed, the council, and therefore the CEO, are obliged to act fairly and in accordance with Council policies.

In short, the CEO, instead of deciding that any reasonable observation period would take them to 9.29 and that after printing and service would take them to 9.30, at which time they would photograph the vehicle to prove service and therefore fall within London Councils' guidance preventing PCNs being issued so close to when the restriction ended, in this case at 9.30, they acted prematurely.

The penalty in this case clearly exceeds the amount applicable in the circumstances of the case.

For these reasons, I respectfully request that the Penalty Charge Notice be cancelled.
---

What do you think?

Hi Mr Andersen (or anyone can help),

I need to send the formal appeal today or tomorrow at least (from Thursday I'll offline for a business trip).

A final advice on the above would be highly beneficial, thank you so much in advance.

Look forward to hearing from you.

It would obviously help if there was something going on that could have been observed.

I'm of the view of including that your wife parked between midway two timeplates that are some xx metres apart and had gone to the opposite one to where the CEO was to check time and by the time they came back to move the car if needs be the PCN had been issued.

As this took place just before the 2 minute window recommended by London Councils it falls well within triviality and reasonable time to consult a timeplate as this is not a controlled parking zone with entry signs.

Was she aware that the line was only subject to a short morning time?

Thank you stamfordman

She was not aware that the line was only subject to a short morning time, she parked in an area of the road with no timeplates in sight (timeplate missing at pole no. 43).

Revised draft

---
The alleged contravention relates to a simple waiting restriction.

The PCN states 'Observed from 9.27 to 9.27'. The PCN also gives the time of contravention as 9.27. This confirms that no observation period whatsoever was carried out.

A Civil Enforcement Officer (CEO) is required to form a reasoned belief that a contravention has occurred and obliged to consider whether any statutory exemptions might apply. The law provides exemptions from the waiting restriction, namely loading (including being away from the vehicle) and alighting/boarding (including being assisted). At least 2 reasonable minutes of observation are required. This would have taken the CEO to 9.29 which, in accordance with London Councils' procedures, would mean that a PCN should not be issued.

I submit that the CEO could not have held a reasoned belief that a contravention had occurred at 9.27, because they had not observed the vehicle for a length of time sufficient to have examined and eliminated the possibility that an exemption applied and therefore the vehicle was permitted to be parked at the location.

While the period necessary to establish an exemption is not prescribed, the council, and therefore the CEO, are obliged to act fairly and in accordance with Council policies.

In short, the CEO, instead of deciding that any reasonable observation period would take them to 9.29 and that after printing and service would take them to 9.30, at which time they would photograph the vehicle to prove service and therefore fall within London Councils' guidance preventing PCNs being issued so close to when the restriction ended, in this case at 9.30, they acted prematurely.

As this took place just before the 2 minute window recommended by London Councils it falls well within triviality and reasonable time to consult a timeplate as this is not a controlled parking zone with entry signs.

It is necessary to emphasise that the driver was not aware that the line was only subject to a short morning time and parked in an area of the road with no timeplates in sight, as the timeplate is missing on pole no. 43. Therefore, the driver needed to walk down the road to look for a sign (approximately 50 mt / 55 steps), found it on pole no. 42, examined it, checked the actual time and went back up (50 mt / 55 steps) with the intention to move the car. In the same time, the CEO quickly completed the PCN with no observation time, and went up the road (50 mt / 55 steps in the opposite direction) photographing as evidence a totally different car (Mercedes) under a different timeplate (on pole 44).

The penalty in this case clearly exceeds the amount applicable in the circumstances of the case.

For these reasons, I respectfully request that the Penalty Charge Notice be cancelled.
---

What do you think?

I think that will do although it's rather long. I don't think it matters too much as I think you have a very good chance of winning this at the tribunal should they reject but the reps set out the ground you would cover with an adjudicator.

Thank you, hope for good at appeal stage, that would save a lot of time for all. I'll surely update the post with the outcome of this step, either positive or negative.