Author Topic: Barnet Council Rejected PCN and Blue Badge Misuse  (Read 167 times)

0 Members and 0 Guests are viewing this topic.

username57384

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 11
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Barnet Council Rejected PCN and Blue Badge Misuse
« Reply #15 on: July 10, 2024, 12:08:19 pm »
Oh dear, oh dear.  Why do we never, ever, get the full story at the start.  So in actual fact there was no Blue Badge on display when the PCN was served, and in your representations you gave a BB number that in all likelihood is the one that was stolen.
What a Pot Mess !

However, Barnet are still remiss in taking 5 months to reply to your informal representations.

I think we need the full story before any further advice is given. Certainly no more from me until we get it, sorry.

Apologies for the confusion again- I’m getting old. The letter Barnet council also confused me because they said I correctly displayed a BB and clock- hence why I thought I did until my daughter sent me the photos!

I have emailed to get the information on the original challenge submitted and all details surrounding it through GDPR request.

From my recollection, the CRN was provided alongside stolen BB number. I doubt BB was displayed because it would’ve taken a week for new badge to arrive but again I can’t be sure. Also unsure why Barnet council said BB and clock was displayed correctly if I informed them that the badge was stolen?

I have a current BB for my mother who still lives at same address, but doubt this does anything to help my case.

I gather this puts me in an awkward position now. I would much rather pay the discounted £65 than double that if it turns messy later on.

What would you suggest?

slapdash

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 326
  • Karma: +3/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Barnet Council Rejected PCN and Blue Badge Misuse
« Reply #16 on: July 10, 2024, 01:43:42 pm »
You should be able to find when the new badge was issued from the issuing authority.

If the photos are contemporaneous with the theft then it seems unlikely that you did have a replacement by the time of the ticket (or rather your reps). However they are fairly quick in replacement.

The council do seem to state a badge was on display (and both accept and reject the reps) so confusion abounds.

Given there was a short duration between the theft and the ticket it seems unusual if you didn't mention any of this in the informals.

Many authorities will offer discretion on a non BB display, Barnet policy may be on their website somewhere.

I don't know if Barnet will reorder the discount if they reject a formal challenge.

H C Andersen

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1055
  • Karma: +22/-7
    • View Profile
Re: Barnet Council Rejected PCN and Blue Badge Misuse
« Reply #17 on: July 10, 2024, 02:43:29 pm »
I want to try and separate the issues(accepting that there is slight overlap): 

1. The contravention;
2. The 'fraudulent use'.

1. Wait for the NTO.
2. How could you on this occasion fraudulently use a BB if it wasn't displayed???

It seems that the story is unfolding as if peeling an onion. But OP, as regards the process if a NTO is not served by 13 Aug. then the PCN lapses.

Enceladus

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 195
  • Karma: +4/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Barnet Council Rejected PCN and Blue Badge Misuse
« Reply #18 on: July 10, 2024, 03:18:59 pm »
The rejection letter says "........ however, upon investigation, the CEO was authorised by CAFT (Corporate Anti Fraud Team) to issue the PCN as suspected misuse/fraud had occurred in relation to blue badge".

That suggests that something was displayed that the CEO checked with the back-office.

And we still haven't got the car reg so we can see the original photos.

The process to obtain a replacement Blue Badge is done online and centrally. A crime reference number is required if a badge is reported stolen. The applicant would have received an email acknowledgement from .............@notifications.service.gov.uk. That email will be the date and time that the application was submitted. A replacement badge, authorised, printed, posted and delivered within a week is theoretically possible however I would have thought that 8-14 days is more likely.


username57384

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 11
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Barnet Council Rejected PCN and Blue Badge Misuse
« Reply #19 on: July 10, 2024, 04:49:12 pm »
I want to try and separate the issues(accepting that there is slight overlap): 

1. The contravention;
2. The 'fraudulent use'.

1. Wait for the NTO.
2. How could you on this occasion fraudulently use a BB if it wasn't displayed???

It seems that the story is unfolding as if peeling an onion. But OP, as regards the process if a NTO is not served by 13 Aug. then the PCN lapses.

I have phoned up Barnet council and written several emails now to get clarification as well as writing to the CAFT because reviewing all this information it seems the letter they’ve sent is filled with errors and now blatant lies! Waiting on a response and will call back in a week to see any update. Barnet council rep has said he will escalate to his manager who will ‘look into it’.

username57384

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 11
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Barnet Council Rejected PCN and Blue Badge Misuse
« Reply #20 on: July 10, 2024, 04:52:30 pm »
The rejection letter says "........ however, upon investigation, the CEO was authorised by CAFT (Corporate Anti Fraud Team) to issue the PCN as suspected misuse/fraud had occurred in relation to blue badge".

That suggests that something was displayed that the CEO checked with the back-office.

And we still haven't got the car reg so we can see the original photos.

The process to obtain a replacement Blue Badge is done online and centrally. A crime reference number is required if a badge is reported stolen. The applicant would have received an email acknowledgement from .............@notifications.service.gov.uk. That email will be the date and time that the application was submitted. A replacement badge, authorised, printed, posted and delivered within a week is theoretically possible however I would have thought that 8-14 days is more likely.

PCN AG44843877
VRM LC05RWX


I can’t find the email unfortunately but have found the CRN and police correspondence. The BB did not arrive by the 13 Feb so I spoke to Barnet Council regarding what the supposed fraud/misuse was since I never claimed to present a BB yet the CEO had apparently seen and investigated with CAFT. The whole thing is a mess and has been escalated to a ‘manager’, will call again in a week’s time to hear an update.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2024, 04:54:14 pm by username57384 »

slapdash

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 326
  • Karma: +3/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Barnet Council Rejected PCN and Blue Badge Misuse
« Reply #21 on: July 10, 2024, 05:02:09 pm »
Barnet's response does seem odd. However you are not exactly blameless.

They received a representation from you claiming a badge number X was displayed.

Upon enquiring they discovered badge X was issued to someone other than you and had been reported stolen. If none of that was made to clear to them it doesn't seem entirely unreasonable that misuse was suspected.

It may be useful to ask for the CEOs notes.

username57384

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 11
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Barnet Council Rejected PCN and Blue Badge Misuse
« Reply #22 on: July 10, 2024, 05:09:16 pm »
To clarify, I stated that the BB was under my mother’s name (who was passenger at the time) and was stolen a week prior and provided the CRN to them as proof. As such, I did not state it was displayed, otherwise why provide a CRN?  (This will hopefully be confirmed once I receive the exact challenge testimony). I assumed that since disabled passenger was present and would’ve had a BB had it not been stolen, we would’ve been parked lawfully and thought the ticket would be cancelled as has happened for many others in many different London Boroughs. Councils usually do not contest when a disabled passenger (in this case, extremely elderly and multiple morbidities) is present. I conveyed this to the Barnet council rep over the phone today also. (I know this does not make me blameless but it also doesn’t justify the erroneous lie stating that the BB was displayed and SEEN by the CEO)

I did not state that the BB was displayed. Barnet council said this in written testimony. The council rep was also confused by this and has therefore escalated it.

I have made a GDPR requesting all information regarding the case and have also emailed the CAFT.

Thanks for your help this far also, I really appreciate it!  ;)

Barnet's response does seem odd. However you are not exactly blameless.

They received a representation from you claiming a badge number X was displayed.

Upon enquiring they discovered badge X was issued to someone other than you and had been reported stolen. If none of that was made to clear to them it doesn't seem entirely unreasonable that misuse was suspected.

It may be useful to ask for the CEOs notes.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2024, 05:11:30 pm by username57384 »

slapdash

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 326
  • Karma: +3/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Barnet Council Rejected PCN and Blue Badge Misuse
« Reply #23 on: July 10, 2024, 06:24:58 pm »
You were considering paying at 65 to prevent it going up.

Before you do read this thread:-

https://www.ftla.uk/announcements/the-50-discount-guidance-for-those-giving-advice-on-council-pcns-when-to-advise-/

Quite how the CEO has got so mistaken about BB display escapes me.