Author Topic: Barnet Council - PCN 38L Failing to comply with a sign indicating that vehiculartraffic must pass to the specified side  (Read 288 times)

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Pramit

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Hello
This is the first time of posting and I am hoping I can get some help with this PCN.

My son was driving and approached a width restriction. However, there was an accident and the car involved in the accident was blocking the width restriction. Police were in attendance and can be seen in the photos sent to me from the Council. Cars were then driving slowly around the width restriction to proceed.

The police were there and dealing with the driver of the car involved in the accident, surely this would be an exemption. I am sure many of the drivers who passed this accident would have received the same PCN!

PCN: AG46632839
VRM: VN61FSV

These are images sent by the council in the PCN:
[/img]
[/img]

This is the Google maps streetview:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/Bka991HmgqksUq3w9

Thanking you in advance for your assistance.

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Incandescent

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There are no images, all I see is

[/img]
[/img]

PCN no good unless you tell us the council; we can then look at the video, the sole evidence of the contravention. Did the police direct any traffic ?

stamfordman

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Ridiculous PCN - the operator who issued this needs (re)training.


Incandescent

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Problem is that there was a case a few years ago where a vehicle was broken down, blocking the carriageway at a traffic island with a Keep Left arrow on the bollards,  and everybody including TfL buses was passing on the RH side, yet an adjudicator, seemingly with no common sense whatsoever, (and hopefully now in a care home), rejected the appeal.

stamfordman

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Problem is that there was a case a few years ago where a vehicle was broken down, blocking the carriageway at a traffic island with a Keep Left arrow on the bollards,  and everybody including TfL buses was passing on the RH side, yet an adjudicator, seemingly with no common sense whatsoever, (and hopefully now in a care home), rejected the appeal.

Yes I remember that. We'd hope a higher up in Barnet is not minded to try and repeat the exercise.

And here it is. All I can say is that in both of these cases there is room to squeeze through but only obvious from an overhead camera. In this current case it is clearly one to avoid getting close to.

https://youtu.be/mOl_hQZ8u2o?si=Gkuq2rarkrCLnydh

And the decision which I assume is correct in law - the presence of what looks like police in the current case may help.

« Last Edit: September 24, 2024, 05:39:57 pm by stamfordman »

Pramit

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Thank you for your replies.

as you say there may have been space to squeeze by, but there were at least 2 cars in front of my son and as you say naturally you wouldn't want to risk driving too close to the car in the accident just to squeeze past.

The car had it's hazard lights on and there was liquid possibly oil on the road surface.

so, do you think it is worth appealing?
« Last Edit: September 24, 2024, 05:38:14 pm by Pramit »

Pramit

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mickR

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massive payday for Barnet  >:(

Incandescent

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I really get quite disgusted at this venality and rapacity. Clearly they will all be going downstairs where it's warmer when their time comes.

Hippocrates

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Clearly, if your son had kept left, he may have caused another accident in view of the other sheep.  ;) Let them prove he could have driven the vehicle in the gap safely.  There is a similar Kingston case which hinged upon an article in the TMO to avoid an accident: 2240068281. So, someone should obtain the TMO.

I'll drop mrmustard a line.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2024, 09:46:25 pm by Hippocrates »
There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends a hearing, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply in view of some adjudicators' lack of knowing what they ought to know through no fault of their own.

"Hippocrates"

ἔοικα γοῦν τούτου γε σμικρῷ τινι αὐτῷ τούτῳ σοφώτερος εἶναι, ὅτι ἃ μὴ οἶδα οὐδὲ οἴομαι εἰ

stamfordman

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As I said there are clearly uniformed police or community support officers there and I wouldn't have liked to be the one trying to keep left there.
The alternative was to stay put, cause a jam and wait for them to direct traffic. Or attempt u-turns.
Good idea to flag Mr M.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2024, 10:27:24 pm by stamfordman »

Hippocrates

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I really get quite disgusted at this venality and rapacity. Clearly they will all be going downstairs where it's warmer when their time comes.
I know a man who could serenade them to Tartini's The Devil's Trill. :D But, hopefully he(I) is going to join God's Heavenly Orchestra when it's time.  ;)
There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends a hearing, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply in view of some adjudicators' lack of knowing what they ought to know through no fault of their own.

"Hippocrates"

ἔοικα γοῦν τούτου γε σμικρῷ τινι αὐτῷ τούτῳ σοφώτερος εἶναι, ὅτι ἃ μὴ οἶδα οὐδὲ οἴομαι εἰ

mrmustard

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A different adjudicator may take a different view.

If the police directed the first car around then all following drivers could argue they were following police instruction which is an exemption but we only have 10 seconds of footage and the council don't keep non pcn related footage from traffic cameras.

Barnet's Notices of Rejection currently have a fatal flaw so if that does not get fixed we may have an escape route.

There doesn't need to be a Traffic Order for a blue keep left arrow.
I help you pro bono (for free). I only ask that a donation is made to the North London Hospice if you can afford it and if you win. I have an 85% success rate across 2,000 PCNs but some PCNs can't be beaten and I will tell you if your case looks hopeless.

Pramit

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Thanks. I am not sure if the police did direct the traffic around, but it is possible they did.

I am planning on sending the following letter to Barnet. Any comments or suggestions would be most welcome:

Subject: Appeal of Penalty Charge Notice [PCN Number]

Dear Barnet Council,

I am writing to challenge the Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) [PCN Number], issued on [date] at [location].

As shown in the image evidence provided, a vehicle was stopped near the width restriction, obstructing the left-turn lane. Police officers were actively managing the situation at the time, and several vehicles, including mine, were forced to carefully navigate around the traffic island to avoid the obstruction.

Given that the stopped vehicle blocked the route, there was liquid on the road surface, which looked like oil, the car had it's hazard lights on, and in my judgement a high likelihood of other additional road hazards, such as mirror shards or other debris, it would not have been safe to go through the width restriction. Therefore, I proceeded cautiously and followed the actions of other drivers who also diverted to the opposite side of the traffic island to avoid any potential danger. You will note that the traffic approaching from Alexandra Grove were stopping at the "Give Way" lines at the junction, the on coming traffic on Nether Street would also need to slow down as they had to go through the width restriction and finally the traffic from Argyle Road were also stopping at the "Give Way" lines.

The police presence including a police car on at the scene indicates that this was an unusual circumstance and were managing the traffic situation, and I believe my actions were reasonable and necessary to ensure safe passage. I acted with due care and caution, and in light of these exceptional circumstances, I respectfully request that this PCN be cancelled.

Thank you for considering my appeal.

Kind regards,
[Your Name]

mrmustard

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I help you pro bono (for free). I only ask that a donation is made to the North London Hospice if you can afford it and if you win. I have an 85% success rate across 2,000 PCNs but some PCNs can't be beaten and I will tell you if your case looks hopeless.