3. Barking/Dagenham Charge Cert - PCN not received - 52M
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Secret_Squirrel1970

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Barking/Dagenham Charge Cert - PCN not received - 52M
« on: January 20, 2024, 06:37:37 pm »
Thursday 18th January received Charge Certificate for the standard £195 (being £130 + £65)...  52M - Station Parade, some restricted zonage I believe.
The contravention was at the end of November - but this Charge Certificate is the first I have heard of the matter.  V5, my address etc all match up.

I am over hundred miles from the location but I was there working that morning and not knowing the area I probably did stray into whatever lane/zone.... I am not contesting that fact.
I merely want them to be aware that I didn't receive any PCN - effectively resetting the clock.

I am assuming the original PCN was caught up in the usual Christmas mail delivery fiasco - even without Christmas the postal service here is abysmal these days.

I haven't used PEPIPOO for years and it is inoperable at the moment it seems...  I am on MSE where I am deep into arguing with a private parking cowboy - but local councils are a different set of rules.

IIRC I am technically in a bit of limbo until it is registered as a debt at TEC at which point I can use form TE7?

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Incandescent

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Re: Barking/Dagenham Charge Cert - PCN not received - 52M
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2024, 07:07:13 pm »
Pepipoo is still alive and kicking and I regularly post on there, but with no named adminstrators, its future is still in the balance, hence this new forum.

Please post the Charge Certificate, suitably redacted, (name and address). Until we know what the PCN was served for, the form to use is yet unknown.
https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/traffic-enforcement-centre-forms

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Neil B

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Re: Barking/Dagenham Charge Cert - PCN not received - 52M
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2024, 07:15:57 pm »
No. TE& is for late applications and for parking and other matters if this were outside London.

You won't be late so long as you keep abreast of debt registration;either by noting an increase in the pcn portal to £204 or by confirmation with TEC.
Then the form you need will be PE3.

B&D are likely to send you another, threatening, letter meanwhile.
You can safely ignore that but if in any doubt at all -- check here.
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Secret_Squirrel1970

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Re: Barking/Dagenham Charge Cert - PCN not received - 52M
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2024, 07:19:37 pm »
Quote from: Incandescent on January 20, 2024, 07:07:13 pm


Please post the Charge Certificate, suitably redacted, (name and address). Until we know what the PCN was served for, the form to use is yet unknown.
https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/traffic-enforcement-centre-forms

Quote from: Neil B on January 20, 2024, 07:15:57 pm
No. TE& is for late applications and for parking and other matters if this were outside London.

You won't be late so long as you keep abreast of debt registration;either by noting an increase in the pcn portal to £204 or by confirmation with TEC.
Then the form you need will be PE3.

B&D are likely to send you another, threatening, letter meanwhile.
You can safely ignore that but if in any doubt at all -- check here.


It has been many many years since I have had any council related parking or whatever PCN so it's all a bit rusty....  Last time I had anything I just remember a TE7 and a TE9

As previously asked for redacted Charge Cert.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2024, 07:21:44 pm by Secret_Squirrel1970 »
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Incandescent

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Re: Barking/Dagenham Charge Cert - PCN not received - 52M
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2024, 07:46:05 pm »
A rather disingenuous letter, because they cannot pass the matter to enforcement agents, (bailiffs) until they register the debt at TEC.This costs them £9 and they have to then issue an Order for Recovery, then wait for it to be paid. I see the Horizon mentality all over English council parking departments. "ignore the law because there are no come-backs on us".
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Secret_Squirrel1970

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Re: Barking/Dagenham Charge Cert - PCN not received - 52M
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2024, 08:02:11 pm »
Quote from: Incandescent on January 20, 2024, 07:46:05 pm
A rather disingenuous letter, because they cannot pass the matter to enforcement agents, (bailiffs) until they register the debt at TEC.This costs them £9 and they have to then issue an Order for Recovery, then wait for it to be paid. I see the Horizon mentality all over English council parking departments. "ignore the law because there are no come-backs on us".
.


So meanwhile its a waiting game... wait for the debt to be registered at TEC then file the relevant form(s) to have the clock/timer reset due to not receiving any PCN.
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Secret_Squirrel1970

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Re: Barking/Dagenham Charge Cert - PCN not received - 52M
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2024, 09:34:42 pm »
Quote from: Secret_Squirrel1970 on January 20, 2024, 08:02:11 pm


So meanwhile its a waiting game... wait for the debt to be registered at TEC then file the relevant form(s) to have the clock/timer reset due to not receiving any PCN.

Just checking back in here...   

I have downloaded a PE3 - just wanting to check that I really cant do much else until the "debt" is entered at TEC - at which point I can use the PE3 from?

At least that is my understanding... ???
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Hippocrates

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Re: Barking/Dagenham Charge Cert - PCN not received - 52M
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2024, 10:17:54 pm »
Take it easy and wait for the OFR.
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There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends a hearing, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply.
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ἔοικα γοῦν τούτου γε σμικρῷ τινι αὐτῷ τούτῳ σοφώτερος εἶναι, ὅτι ἃ μὴ οἶδα οὐδὲ οἴομαι ε

Incandescent

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Re: Barking/Dagenham Charge Cert - PCN not received - 52M
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2024, 10:39:06 pm »
Quote from: Secret_Squirrel1970 on January 23, 2024, 09:34:42 pm
Quote from: Secret_Squirrel1970 on January 20, 2024, 08:02:11 pm


So meanwhile its a waiting game... wait for the debt to be registered at TEC then file the relevant form(s) to have the clock/timer reset due to not receiving any PCN.

Just checking back in here... 

I have downloaded a PE3 - just wanting to check that I really cant do much else until the "debt" is entered at TEC - at which point I can use the PE3 from?

At least that is my understanding... ???
council (B&D
Your understanding is correct. When filling in the PE3, please note that the "Applicant" on the form is the council, NOT you. You are the respondent, although I don't think that word is used on the PE3 Councils normally include a paper copy of the PE3 when they send out the OfR, but you don't have to use it, and TEC accept them electronically now, I believe.
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Neil B

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Re: Barking/Dagenham Charge Cert - PCN not received - 52M
« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2024, 04:10:35 am »
Quote from: Hippocrates on January 23, 2024, 10:17:54 pm
Take it easy and wait for the OFR.
+1
We don't need you panicking and doing something daft. You risk delaying debt registration or even really complicating matters.

and I did tell you how to set your mind at rest >
Quote from: Neil B on January 20, 2024, 07:15:57 pm
You won't be late so long as you keep abreast of debt registration;either by noting an increase in the pcn portal to £204 or by confirmation with TEC.
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Secret_Squirrel1970

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Re: Barking/Dagenham Charge Cert - PCN not received - 52M
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2024, 08:59:04 pm »
Quote from: Neil B on January 24, 2024, 04:10:35 am
Quote from: Hippocrates on January 23, 2024, 10:17:54 pm
Take it easy and wait for the OFR.
+1
We don't need you panicking and doing something daft. You risk delaying debt registration or even really complicating matters.

and I did tell you how to set your mind at rest >
Quote from: Neil B on January 20, 2024, 07:15:57 pm
You won't be late so long as you keep abreast of debt registration;either by noting an increase in the pcn portal to £204 or by confirmation with TEC.


All good.    Thanks all.

Second letter from B&D received yesterday or today.  Still showing £195 but specifying I have 7 days to pay up at this point and deal direct with them before they send it to Northampton.

So still at waiting stage. 

[Meanwhile have to pop back over to MSE Forum where my private parking matter getting set for court - although they will more than likely pull out at the last minute].
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cp8759

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Re: Barking/Dagenham Charge Cert - PCN not received - 52M
« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2024, 01:26:01 pm »
Quote from: Secret_Squirrel1970 on February 06, 2024, 08:59:04 pm
Second letter from B&D received yesterday or today.  Still showing £195 but specifying I have 7 days to pay up at this point and deal direct with them before they send it to Northampton.
Let's see this letter please, it almost certainly amounts to a procedural impropriety.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

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Hippocrates

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Re: Barking/Dagenham Charge Cert - PCN not received - 52M
« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2024, 02:09:52 pm »
This is ultra bullying.  :o
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There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends a hearing, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply.
"Hippocrates"

ἔοικα γοῦν τούτου γε σμικρῷ τινι αὐτῷ τούτῳ σοφώτερος εἶναι, ὅτι ἃ μὴ οἶδα οὐδὲ οἴομαι ε

Enceladus

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Re: Barking/Dagenham Charge Cert - PCN not received - 52M
« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2024, 06:36:22 pm »
At the top of the forum there is a very prominent "Read This First" post.

This says amongst other items:
"Leave in the PCN number and vehicle number plate (VRM). The ONLY things you should obscure are your name and address where they appear, NOTHING ELSE. We may need ALL sides of ALL pages but it is OK to start a case with just the front of the PCN."


You have redacted the VRM and part of the PCN number from the Charge Certificate posted above. Please re-instate both.

Thanks
« Last Edit: February 11, 2024, 06:38:48 pm by Enceladus »
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Secret_Squirrel1970

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Re: Barking/Dagenham Charge Cert - PCN not received - 52M
« Reply #14 on: July 05, 2024, 08:56:33 pm »
I haven't been back in here nor seen the last few comments - as nothing had happened and life was very busy....

I will dig through and see what paperwork I have.. and re-do the initial letter I received but am not at home for a few days so wont be til then.

Have now, finally, many months later - received an OFR in relation to this, it has now been 'logged' at Northampton and the amount gone up to £205 from the £195.

I would like to point out I am not seeking to challenge this whole thing, I am fine (no pun intended) paying the original £65 or whatever it was - am just damned if I am getting reamed for a further £140 merely because we have a shockingly bad postal service.

Anyhow, will get the original letters dug out when am back home on Sunday evening.


PS: - would like to mention that the private PCN matter I was dealing with via MSE forums (alluded to above) was sorted satisfactorily in the end. The PPC pulled out two weeks before court. A year long process and a lot of time and faff basically boiled down to who would blink first...
« Last Edit: July 05, 2024, 09:00:52 pm by Secret_Squirrel1970 »
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