3. PCN - Barking and Dagenham: Parked in an electric vehicles charging place
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PCN - Barking and Dagenham: Parked in an electric vehicles charging place
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Hi

I received a PCN in the early hours of this morning from Barking and Dagenham Council with Contravention code 14: "Parking in an electric vehicles charging place during restricted hours without charging."

I recently purchased a plug in electric vehicle. Outside my home there are designated bays which says 'Electric Vehicles Only' where the restriction is Mon-Sat 8.30am - 9pm.
As it was after midnight (and therefore a Sunday) and given my car is I assumed I could park in the electric vehicles only bay.

I woke up this morning to find a PCN attached to the window.

Below is the PCN and images from the council website. Unfortuantley Google street view has not been updated so I cannot show the bays.

PCN:PCN Front
PCN Back

Contravention images:
https://ibb.co/gZYTX7d
https://ibb.co/LdBqfqT
https://ibb.co/QDmDSTv

Parking Signboard

Do I have any grounds of appeal?

Appreciate all help and thanks in advance.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2023, 06:42:29 pm by ta849 »
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Re: PCN - Barking and Dagenham: Parked in an electric vehicles charging place
« Reply #1 on: »
Arer you sure there is no other sign ? Although the carriageway has "Electric Vehicles Only", there must be a sign or the offence did occur..
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Re: PCN - Barking and Dagenham: Parked in an electric vehicles charging place
« Reply #2 on: »
Sorry, "....did NOT occur....."
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Re: PCN - Barking and Dagenham: Parked in an electric vehicles charging place
« Reply #3 on: »
No other signs. The floor has the wording 'Electric vehicles only' and the signboard is what I posted and no other signboard present in that section of parking.
Even if you check the council images using the PCN number, you will see they provided no images of the signboard but just the floor wording
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Re: PCN - Barking and Dagenham: Parked in an electric vehicles charging place
« Reply #4 on: »
Quote from: ta849 on September 17, 2023, 06:06:52 pm
I recently purchased a plug in electric vehicle.
DVLA says it's a hybrid electric with co2 emissions of 39 g/km, so it's not really electric.

Saying that the contravention is that you were not charging, and there is no signage to indicate such a requirement. We need to check the traffic order, to that end please give us a link to the exact location on google street view.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: PCN - Barking and Dagenham: Parked in an electric vehicles charging place
« Reply #5 on: »
Quote from: cp8759 on September 18, 2023, 01:12:58 am
Quote from: ta849 on September 17, 2023, 06:06:52 pm
I recently purchased a plug in electric vehicle.
DVLA says it's a hybrid electric with co2 emissions of 39 g/km, so it's not really electric.

Saying that the contravention is that you were not charging, and there is no signage to indicate such a requirement. We need to check the traffic order, to that end please give us a link to the exact location on google street view.

It's a plug in electric, I'm not sure what else to say.
Unfortunately, as mentioned on my post, the location is not updated on Google street view (it just shows a construction site) and so I cannot share the signage. Is there anything I can share myself to help?
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Re: PCN - Barking and Dagenham: Parked in an electric vehicles charging place
« Reply #6 on: »
As the location will not come up on google street view, i've tried my best to take a picture of Road Signage and bay where car was parked. As you can see, there is no additional signs of cars needing to actively charge etc.

Let me know if any additional information/pictures are needed
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Re: PCN - Barking and Dagenham: Parked in an electric vehicles charging place
« Reply #7 on: »
Quote from: ta849 on September 18, 2023, 04:03:07 pm
Unfortunately, as mentioned on my post, the location is not updated on Google street view
That doesn't matter, I need to know the exact location so I can get the right information from the council. The fact that the GSV images are outdated is irrelevant.

Quote from: ta849 on September 18, 2023, 04:03:07 pm
It's a plug in electric, I'm not sure what else to say.
So this is incorrect and your car doesn't have a 1.4 litre petrol engine?



Can you show us the section of the V5C that shows the engine size and fuel type please?
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: PCN - Barking and Dagenham: Parked in an electric vehicles charging place
« Reply #8 on: »
Quote from: cp8759 on September 18, 2023, 11:26:27 pm
That doesn't matter, I need to know the exact location so I can get the right information from the council. The fact that the GSV images are outdated is irrelevant.
Sure, here is  Google street view as requested.

Quote from: cp8759 on September 18, 2023, 11:26:27 pm
So this is incorrect and your car doesn't have a 1.4 litre petrol engine?



Quote from: cp8759 on September 18, 2023, 11:26:27 pm
Can you show us the section of the V5C that shows the engine size and fuel type please?


The information you posted from the gov site is correct. The car has a 1.4 petrol engine and is a hybrid electric. So it self charges BUT is also a plug in electric and car can be driven in full electric mode too.

The signage or the floor marking doesn't say "Full electric vehicles only" neither does the signage say the car must be charging if parking in that bay hence my assumption that I can park there.

Let me know if anything unclear
« Last Edit: September 19, 2023, 02:13:08 pm by ta849 »
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Re: PCN - Barking and Dagenham: Parked in an electric vehicles charging place
« Reply #9 on: »
So this is the relevant map tile: https://store.traffweb.app/barking-dagenham/documents/parkmap/msched/AC5_rv8_1.pdf

The principal traffic orders are The London Borough of Barking and Dagenham (Free Parking Places, Loading Places and Waiting, Loading and Stopping Restrictions) Consolidation Order 2016 and The London Borough of Barking and Dagenham (Charged-For Parking Places) Consolidation Order 2016, but obviously there must have been a recent amendment order to introduce these bays, I'll have to request that.

In the meantime I'd suggest a basic challenge on the ground that there is no signage indicating your vehicle must be actively charging while parked: even if that requirement exists in the traffic order, it cannot be enforced if there is no signage to tell you about it.

Draft reps:

Dear London Borough of Barking and Dagenham,

I challenge liability for PCN BZ57377086 on the basis that the alleged contravention did not occur. This is because there is no signage indicating that vehicles parked at this location must be plugged in and on charge, so the contravention cannot have occurred.

Yours faithfully,

The council will undoubtedly reject but it gets the ball rolling. Send the representation online and keep a screenshot of the confirmation screen.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2023, 11:49:12 pm by cp8759 »
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
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Re: PCN - Barking and Dagenham: Parked in an electric vehicles charging place
« Reply #10 on: »
Quote from: cp8759 on September 19, 2023, 11:32:59 pm
So this is the relevant map tile: https://store.traffweb.app/barking-dagenham/documents/parkmap/msched/AC5_rv8_1.pdf

The principal traffic orders are The London Borough of Barking and Dagenham (Free Parking Places, Loading Places and Waiting, Loading and Stopping Restrictions) Consolidation Order 2016 and The London Borough of Barking and Dagenham (Charged-For Parking Places) Consolidation Order 2016, but obviously there must have been a recent amendment order to introduce these bays, I'll have to request that.

In the meantime I'd suggest a basic challenge on the ground that there is no signage indicating your vehicle must be actively charging while parked: even if that requirement exists in the traffic order, it cannot be enforced if there is no signage to tell you about it.

Draft reps:

Dear London Borough of Barking and Dagenham,

I challenge liability for PCN BZ57377086 on the basis that the alleged contravention did not occur. This is because there is no signage indicating that vehicles parked at this location must be plugged in and on charge, so the contravention cannot have occurred.

Yours faithfully,

The council will undoubtedly reject but it gets the ball rolling. Send the representation online and keep a screenshot of the confirmation screen.

Thank you, much appreciated. I have submitted the challenge and will keep you updated with progress.
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Re: PCN - Barking and Dagenham: Parked in an electric vehicles charging place
« Reply #11 on: »
Quote from: cp8759 on September 19, 2023, 11:32:59 pm
So this is the relevant map tile: https://store.traffweb.app/barking-dagenham/documents/parkmap/msched/AC5_rv8_1.pdf

The principal traffic orders are The London Borough of Barking and Dagenham (Free Parking Places, Loading Places and Waiting, Loading and Stopping Restrictions) Consolidation Order 2016 and The London Borough of Barking and Dagenham (Charged-For Parking Places) Consolidation Order 2016, but obviously there must have been a recent amendment order to introduce these bays, I'll have to request that.

In the meantime I'd suggest a basic challenge on the ground that there is no signage indicating your vehicle must be actively charging while parked: even if that requirement exists in the traffic order, it cannot be enforced if there is no signage to tell you about it.

Draft reps:

Dear London Borough of Barking and Dagenham,

I challenge liability for PCN BZ57377086 on the basis that the alleged contravention did not occur. This is because there is no signage indicating that vehicles parked at this location must be plugged in and on charge, so the contravention cannot have occurred.

Yours faithfully,

The council will undoubtedly reject but it gets the ball rolling. Send the representation online and keep a screenshot of the confirmation screen.

I've had a response already and they've rejected it. Seems like they have some sort of template answer for these type of tickets because the response mentions that I said the time plate was "painted over" when all I was "there is no signage indicating that vehicles parked at this location must be plugged in and on charge, so the contravention cannot have occurred."

Attaching the response below, please let me know the next steps.

Page 1
Page 2

Once again, Thanks in advance.
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Re: PCN - Barking and Dagenham: Parked in an electric vehicles charging place
« Reply #12 on: »
Just wait for the notice to owner. In the meantime please confirm that the address on the V5C is 100% correct and up to date.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: PCN - Barking and Dagenham: Parked in an electric vehicles charging place
« Reply #13 on: »
Quote from: cp8759 on September 22, 2023, 05:32:18 pm
Just wait for the notice to owner. In the meantime please confirm that the address on the V5C is 100% correct and up to date.

Yep all up to date  :)

Out of curiosity, what will be the take once the NTO comes through?
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Re: PCN - Barking and Dagenham: Parked in an electric vehicles charging place
« Reply #14 on: »
Quote from: ta849 on September 22, 2023, 05:35:20 pm
Out of curiosity, what will be the take once the NTO comes through?
Well the two obvious arguments are:

1) The traffic order says there's two bays adjacent to each over, one for electric charging and the other for permit holders, the signage does not reflect this, and
2) There is nothing that says electric vehicles must be plugged in and charging, so the signage is inadequate in any event.
Logged
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
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