3. Barking and Dagenham, 53j Entering a pedestrian zone, Spurling Road (Dagenham)
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Barking and Dagenham, 53j Entering a pedestrian zone, Spurling Road (Dagenham)
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Hi all,

I originally posted this on Pepipoo forum and the FTLA forum was recommended to me as Pepipoo may go offline.

I received a Charge Certificate on 04/11/23 from Barking & Dagenham local authority for £195.
Alleged contravention: 53j Failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles entering a pedestrian zone (Camera Enforcement)

They mention that they sent a PCN on 28/9/23 but I did not receive this.
I'm assuming this would have been for a reduced charge if paid within 2 weeks?

I read a couple of previous posts and understand that I may need to wait now until I receive the next correspondence related to debt recovery? is this the case? Do I just do nothing now until I receive the next letter?

I really appreciate any advice on how to proceed

Thank you!  :)

Images:

Charge certificate page 1 of 2 
 

Charge certificate page 2 of 2 
 

Image of road entrance from council evidence:

 



Google maps street view has not been updated yet and it appears that the pedestrian only school zones came into force earlier this year according to the councils website (section 7. Spurling road)<br>
https://www.lbbd.gov.uk/sites/default/files/2023-02/10285%20-%20School%20Streets%20NOM.pdf <br>




——
Response received on Pepipoo forum so far:

You understand correctly, but whatever you do, don't now do nothing. Reason for this is that you never received the PCN, but received the CC. This indicates a possible mail problem, so you now need to be proactive.
At the end of the period allowed for payment of the CC, you need to phone TEC every week or so, quoting the PCN number, to find out if the debt has been registered. Once it has, you can submit your statutory declaration to TEC, (this might be a Witness Statement depending on what t he PCN was issued for). TEC will accept your submission, and t then cancel off the CC and OfR, and advise the council and yourself.

The council will send out an Order for Recovery once they have registered the debt, (this adds £9 to the CC amount). You can probably also look on the council website to see how much is owing on the PCN. Once it gets to £204, (£195 + £9), you know they have registered the debt. Problem with just waiting around for the OfR is that there is only a limited time to respond to it, and if it's late, you may not be able to submit an in-time declaration. Once things go out-of-time, it gets very difficult to revert the matter to PCN stage.

This post has been edited by Incandescent: Sat, 4 Nov 2023 - 11:50
« Last Edit: November 13, 2023, 11:18:52 pm by MST_UK »
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Re: Barking and Dagenham, 53j Entering a pedestrian zone, Spurling Road (Dagenham)
« Reply #1 on: »
The PCN is sat at £195 at the moment, keep an eye on https://parkingpayments.lbbd.gov.uk/3sc/ and as soon as it goes up to £204, you can download form PE3, print if off, fill it in (remember the applicant is the council, not you) and tick the box to say you never got the PCN, then make an appointment with your local county court or magistrates' court to get it sworn (this is free), or for £5 / £10 any local solicitor can witness you sign it.

Once that's done scan the form and email it to tec@justice.gov.uk with the PCN number in the subject line.

In theory you could wait for the paper copy to come in the post, but there's no reason to wait and there's no guarantees you won't have more postal problems, so you really don't want to rely on that.

When the amount due on the council website drops back down to £65, it means the PCN has been reissued. Let us know when this happens (you'll need to check once every 10 days or so after you've emailed TEC) and we'll help with a representation (again you should get a copy of the new PCN in the post, but you don't want to rely on that).

Any questions please ask.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Barking and Dagenham, 53j Entering a pedestrian zone, Spurling Road (Dagenham)
« Reply #2 on: »
Thank you this is really helpful

will post here when I have an update
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Re: Barking and Dagenham, 53j Entering a pedestrian zone, Spurling Road (Dagenham)
« Reply #3 on: »
Hi,

I've received a letter today from London Borough of Barking and Dagenham
The charge is still showing as £195 on the website.



Do I just continue to wait or should I call them?
Thanks
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Re: Barking and Dagenham, 53j Entering a pedestrian zone, Spurling Road (Dagenham)
« Reply #4 on: »
Nasty.  Wait for the Order for Recovery. A dysfunctional outfit indeed.
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IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r
Re: Barking and Dagenham, 53j Entering a pedestrian zone, Spurling Road (Dagenham)
« Reply #5 on: »
This letter is verging on unlawful, or even IS unlawful.  There is no stage in the PCN enforcement process defined in law that has a "reminder letter" stage. So not only is this unlawful intimidation, it also comes in between the Charge Certificate and the next, (and final), stage in the legal process, the Order for Recovery that is issued when the council register the debt at the Traffic Enforcement Centre, (the "court"). At this final stage, the PCN recipient can submit a Statutory Declaration that will result in the matter reverting to the representations stage. Yet this letter says nothing at all about the Order for Recovery, merely stating that they will instruct bailiffs Yet they cannot do this until the debt is registered with TEC and an Order for Recovery sent out. The OfR still allows payment as well, so again, they have lied to the OP.

I find this sort of thing quite disgusting and the head of their traffic enforcement department should be getting the sack as a minimum action of the council to return this council to legality and probity.
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Re: Barking and Dagenham, 53j Entering a pedestrian zone, Spurling Road (Dagenham)
« Reply #6 on: »
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Re: Barking and Dagenham, 53j Entering a pedestrian zone, Spurling Road (Dagenham)
« Reply #7 on: »
Note that this is not a parking case, so unlike the other thread, this letter does not amount to a procedural impropriety.

As above, you need to wait for the debt to go up to £204 before making a statutory declaration.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Barking and Dagenham, 53j Entering a pedestrian zone, Spurling Road (Dagenham)
« Reply #8 on: »
Quote from: cp8759 on November 29, 2023, 09:22:59 pm
Note that this is not a parking case, so unlike the other thread, this letter does not amount to a procedural impropriety.

As above, you need to wait for the debt to go up to £204 before making a statutory declaration.
So can they continue to act unlawfully then ? Surely not !
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Re: Barking and Dagenham, 53j Entering a pedestrian zone, Spurling Road (Dagenham)
« Reply #9 on: »
Quote from: Incandescent on November 29, 2023, 10:34:58 pm
So can they continue to act unlawfully then ? Surely not !
There is no law that says they can't send that letter, not under the 2003 Act at least.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Barking and Dagenham, 53j Entering a pedestrian zone, Spurling Road (Dagenham)
« Reply #10 on: »
Quote from: cp8759 on December 02, 2023, 04:12:25 pm
Quote from: Incandescent on November 29, 2023, 10:34:58 pm
So can they continue to act unlawfully then ? Surely not !
There is no law that says they can't send that letter, not under the 2003 Act at least.
No wonder London councils continue to use the 2003 Act rather than the TMA 2004. And they can set their own PCN penalties too !
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Re: Barking and Dagenham, 53j Entering a pedestrian zone, Spurling Road (Dagenham)
« Reply #11 on: »
The SD must be done first but i think i would try at tribunal with an abuse of process Telling lies in a letter must surely be that
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Re: Barking and Dagenham, 53j Entering a pedestrian zone, Spurling Road (Dagenham)
« Reply #12 on: »
The contents of the letter say it all. There is currently a serious complaint against them in terms of another case which is live. This is nasty stuff.

@OP:  we are all behind you so just hold your nerve.  :)
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IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r
Re: Barking and Dagenham, 53j Entering a pedestrian zone, Spurling Road (Dagenham)
« Reply #13 on: »
Thanks all

Will continue to wait for order for recovery

the LBBD website is still showing £195 currently
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Re: Barking and Dagenham, 53j Entering a pedestrian zone, Spurling Road (Dagenham)
« Reply #14 on: »
MST - has this progressed any further?
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