Author Topic: Barking 52M Failing to comply with prohibition  (Read 3518 times)

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Barking 52M Failing to comply with prohibition
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Hi,
I read some posts about successful appeal against failing to comply with a prohibition on certain types of vehicles (52M) but there seemed to have been mitigating circumstances on that occasion.
I received penalty charge notice (PCN) from Barking & Dagenham for driving on prohibited section of Longbridge Road, Barking dated 03/08/2023.
I hadn't been aware of prohibition on a section of that road, and certainly didn't notice any sign. I drove through in the morning and again later in the afternoon so I have received two PCNs dated same day but different times. If paid b4 end of 14 day period I can pay a discounted charge of £65 for each otherwise I am looking at £260 total.
Is there any ground for appeal? Links to PCNs are attached below. Thanks for the anticipated feedback.







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« Last Edit: August 07, 2023, 08:20:55 pm by cp8759 »

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Re: Barking 52M Failing to comply with prohibition
« Reply #1 on: »
Please post a GSV link to the location - there's a lot of Longbridge Road(s) in Barking!

Re: Barking 52M Failing to comply with prohibition
« Reply #2 on: »
@fttboy read the instructions here for how to share the google street view location (you need to do this on a computer, not a phone / ipad).
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Re: Barking 52M Failing to comply with prohibition
« Reply #3 on: »

Hello,

thanks @cp8759 and @John U.K.   I have attached google street map link below

https://goo.gl/maps/Bk7rK6kKtMkAFVwe8

Re: Barking 52M Failing to comply with prohibition
« Reply #4 on: »
So you passed these signs?
https://goo.gl/maps/oMBLgtQiCZyv5QwE8

Re: Barking 52M Failing to comply with prohibition
« Reply #5 on: »
BZ99502628:



BZ9950280A:



Maybe for the first one you could argue that the sign was obscured by the bus. I can't see an offside sign on GSV.

Also, there should be more pages?
« Last Edit: August 07, 2023, 08:29:11 pm by cp8759 »
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Re: Barking 52M Failing to comply with prohibition
« Reply #6 on: »
Quote
Maybe for the first one you could argue that the sign was obscured by the bus. I can't see an offside sign on GSV.

The nearside sign is an oddity - perhaps there for the camera's benefit?
As far as I could see, the OP had to have passed these
https://goo.gl/maps/oMBLgtQiCZyv5QwE8

which is why I asked him to confirm. Reply#4

Re: Barking 52M Failing to comply with prohibition
« Reply #7 on: »
Reply #4
So you passed these signs?
https://goo.gl/maps/oMBLgtQiCZyv5QwE.

I must have passed them. But I never saw them..[no excuses] but coming round the roundabout on lane 2/3 and then heading for that restriction zone it is near impossible to notice them b4 you have gone through, particularly if you are driving on that road for the first time.

@cp8759
the other pages relate to representations. Sorry that I did not attach earlier.



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Re: Barking 52M Failing to comply with prohibition
« Reply #8 on: »
Traffic order here: The London Borough of Barking and Dagenham (Banned Turns and Prohibitions) (Various Roads) Order 2022.

Short of trying to trip up the authority, I can't see anything to go on here. See what others say.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Re: Barking 52M Failing to comply with prohibition
« Reply #9 on: »
@cp8759
Thanks for this information.
The way I'm seeing it appears that my appeal will hinge on poor signage and prohibition on U-turn on those roads.

Like you said, perhaps someone might add something to it.

Much appreciated.

Re: Barking 52M Failing to comply with prohibition
« Reply #10 on: »
Hi all,

An update. this must be dark humour from Barking & Dagenham. I received 2 more PCNs for the same date - 27/07/2023, and times, for Failing to comply with a prohibition on certain types of vehicle (52M). This time round relating to Station Parade [previous two were for Longbridge Rd].

So, it appears to be 1 stretch of road that has 2 sections named differently [Longbridge road and Station parade] with signage and camera at both ends. Looking at google map (although dated March 2022; didn't find later versions), there is hardly any way to avoid getting caught out once you miss the poorly placed signs.

Is there any way(s) I can improve chances of a reprieve in an appeal? Every help required now. :'(

Thanks

Links to documents attached;
https://acrobat.adobe.com/id/urn:aaid:sc:EU:ef1a6f25-8a9f-4704-9678-841819467c8e
https://acrobat.adobe.com/id/urn:aaid:sc:EU:2ac8a9c2-1106-4398-b192-df1ef25d2eb3
https://acrobat.adobe.com/id/urn:aaid:sc:EU:d04cc103-6eb2-4af4-8407-2ff3029e0f7f
https://acrobat.adobe.com/id/urn:aaid:sc:EU:3b361481-dc84-4f88-9f5a-5b834eb76f3f

https://acrobat.adobe.com/id/urn:aaid:sc:EU:cc45b5b7-4cdb-4382-b922-7fa674d7e963
https://acrobat.adobe.com/id/urn:aaid:sc:EU:c7443b21-b8fa-45ed-8c6b-0ad68bfc1454
https://acrobat.adobe.com/id/urn:aaid:sc:EU:546d103a-6653-4cd1-9280-2a01bd851b35
https://acrobat.adobe.com/id/urn:aaid:sc:EU:aff38f2d-2cb6-4b35-9cdf-29388c87395b

https://goo.gl/maps/hL7QEiWD79RwYdtg6

Re: Barking 52M Failing to comply with prohibition
« Reply #11 on: »
@fttboy in the circumstances, I would write a representation inviting the authority to exercise its discretion by cancelling three of the PCNs, and allowing you to pay one at the discounted rate.

In order to force them to take a wholistic view, this should be done in a letter to be sent by post (if you challenge them online, they'll inevitably be dealt with individually, which we don't want).

As the PCN requires you to use pages 3 & 4 of the PCN to make a challenge by post, you'll have to send (all in one envelope):

1) The form on pages 3 & 5 of each PCN, duly completed and signed, and in the "representations" box just write "see attached letter"
2) The letter you are going to write.

There is a possibility that they might accept and cancel a couple of the PCNs.

There is also a possibility that they might ignore the representation for some of the PCNs and just issue a charge certificate, which would then give you grounds to file a statutory declaration and then pursue the case at the tribunal for failure to consider (which would be an open-and-shut win).

If you go down this route, I would recommend going to the postbox with all the paperwork, films the various pages so that the PCN numbers on the form are visible, film the letter, film yourself putting all the pages in the envelope, sealing the envelope and posting it. That way, if the council considers representations for some of the PCNs but not others, they can't dispute that you did in fact make representations.

In the first instance I suggest you write a draft based on the arguments of proportionality and put it on here for review.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2023, 12:38:00 am by cp8759 »
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Re: Barking 52M Failing to comply with prohibition
« Reply #12 on: »
@cp8759
Grand plan. Very much appreciated.
I'll post draft shortly.


Re: Barking 52M Failing to comply with prohibition
« Reply #13 on: »
Hi,
@cp8759 please draft letter of appeal to council

Dear London Borough of Barking & Dagenham,

I write in regards to the penalty charge notices (PCNs) Barking & Dagenham 52M Failing to comply with a prohibition on certain types of vehicles (motor vehicles) on Longbridge Road (Barking) (Prohibition Zone), and Station Parade (Barking), the vehicle haven been seen and recorded by road-side cameras between the hours of 10:17 and 16:26 Hrs on 27/07/2023. And to confirm that I wish to make a representation and invite the Borough to exercise discretion in this case, by cancelling three of the PCNs, and allowing me to pay one at the discounted rate.

Granted that council has the right to issue the PCNs for the contraventions on back of traffic regulations. I will like to ask the borough to be mindful of  proportionality in pursuing its statutory rights in this case. As can be seen from the PCNs the contraventions occurred on the same day and within minutes of each other in the morning around past 10 am and again in the afternoon around past 1600 hrs, also being my first time of driving through the stretch of road named Longbridge road/Station parade. The objective of the PCN, which is to bring to the notice of road users the application of the London Local Authorities and Transport for London Act 2003 with respect to complying with a prohibition on certain types of motor vehicles on this particular stretch of road in Barking, is adequately serve by one PCN. And I wish to submit that paying one PCN satisfies the exigencies required for contravention 52M.

Thank you for a timely and considerate view of my representation.

Regards

Re: Barking 52M Failing to comply with prohibition
« Reply #14 on: »
Slight revision:

Dear London Borough of Barking & Dagenham,

I write in regards to the penalty charge notices (PCNs) Barking & Dagenham 52M Failing to comply with a prohibition on certain types of vehicles (motor vehicles) on Longbridge Road (Barking) (Prohibition Zone), and Station Parade (Barking), the vehicle haven been seen and recorded by road-side cameras between the hours of 10:17 and 16:26 Hrs on 27/07/2023.

I accept that the council has the right to issue the PCNs for the contraventions. I would however like to ask the borough to be mindful of  proportionality in pursuing its statutory rights in this case. As can be seen from the PCNs the contraventions occurred on the same day and within minutes of each other in the morning around past 10 am and again in the afternoon around past 1600 hrs, also being my first time driving through the stretch of road named Longbridge road/Station parade. The objective of the PCN, which is to enforce moving traffic restrictions, is adequately served by one PCN. I am obviously now aware of the restrictions and will not be making the same mistake again, so it could be said that I have learnt my lesson.

In the circumstances, I invite the council to consider the totality of the circumstances and allow me to pay one of the penalty charges at the discounted rate of £65, and cancelling the remaining three PCNs.

Yours faithfully,
« Last Edit: August 19, 2023, 11:15:53 pm by cp8759 »
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
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