Free Traffic Legal Advice

Hello,

I hope you can help and will appreciate any input.

I've received text messages from CDER in the past few months that looked like many other scams (images below) so I ignored them. Yesterday I received a Baliff Warrant of Control text message that also looked suspicious but was obviously concerning.

I followed up this morning and it turns out this is for a PCN from 2022. The backstory is that I never received the original notice (apparently issued 02/05/22) in the post. I did receive the follow-up Charge Certificate dated 08/06/22 outlining a traffic contravention with a penalty charge amount and a 50% increase of £65. I challenged this online, stating that I did not receive the original notice so hadn't had the opportunity to pay the penalty charge or make representations. There is an email confirmation of my appeal.

Since then I never received any response to my challenge. After contacting the City of London Parking Ticket Office (PTO) this morning they state that they sent me a response dated 02/11/22 and then again on 29/11/23. I never received it so assumed it had been cancelled.

Last year August my flat, the property where my vehicle was registered, burnt down and I've not had access to the property since. Obviously, I never received anything past August 2023. I don't have any analog documentation as it's been 2 years since I appealed.


The person who I spoke to at the PTO was helpful and has put the Bailiffs on hold for 21 days and told me I can file a PE2 and PE3 and I don't have to explain anything about what has passed since my last challenge:

Thank you for your recent communication.

As requested I can confirm that a hold of 21 days has been placed with the bailiffs, whilst you’re in the process of a filing a Statutory Declaration Out of Time.

PE2: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/form-pe2-application-to-file-a-statutory-declaration-out-of-time

PE3: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/form-pe3-challenge-an-unpaid-penalty-charge-notice
Contact Details for Traffic Enforcement Centre who will be processing the application.
Email: tec@justice.gov.uk
Telephone: 0300 1231059
Postal address: Traffic Enforcement Centre
Northampton County Court
5th Floor St Katharine’s House
21-27 St Katharine’s Street
Northampton, NN1 2LH
 
Regards
PTO Team

This is obviously extremely concerning. I'm happy to pay the original fine as that was never the issue. I'd appreciate help in filling in the PE2 and PE3 to give me the best chances of getting rid of the bailiffs.

If the PCN is from 2022, the amount due will be £514.


You must confirm the address on the Warrant with the City of London. If you have received a text message, it suggests that the bailiffs may not have your current address and have yet to be successful in locating your vehicle using an ANPR camera. Refrain from giving your current address; otherwise, they will pass it on to bailiffs.


Filing a PE2 will reveal your current address, prompting the issuance of a new warrant. CDER will start visiting without sending a Notice of Enforcement, as they believe the statutory notice requirement was already met by notifying your previous address.


Given that the PCN dates back from 2022, the statutory 12-month expiry of the Notice is likely to lapse, and the enforcement ends, hence the text messages.

Contact the PTO and ask for copies of the notices and correspondence issued by the council as you need these details for your OOT. And 21 days from when?

I've contacted the assistant at the PTO and they've said that I can't get these re-issued without going through a data protection request which could take months (definitely longer than the 21 days I have). He also said that I don't need any of them for the forms.

Given that the PCN dates back from 2022, the statutory 12-month expiry of the Notice is likely to lapse, and the enforcement ends, hence the text messages.

When I asked about this with the PTO they said that because they have my original challenge on file this won't affect any expiry. He also said that although he can't guarantee it, I have a strong chance of it being accepted because of my first appeal on 20 June 2022.

Filing a PE2 will reveal your current address, prompting the issuance of a new warrant. CDER will start visiting without sending a Notice of Enforcement, as they believe the statutory notice requirement was already met by notifying your previous address.

If the 21 day hold notice has been placed with the bailiffs, they can't do anything until the lapse, right? I need to supply my current address on the PE2 and PE3 to get a response for trying to reduce the costs of the predicament. If everything fails I'll have to pay the bailiffs regardless?

OP, you do not owe £514 unless:

CDER have served a Notice of Enforcement, and
CDER have visited the property named in the warrant for the purposes of execution.

There is no imperative for the council to refuse your request, they're perfectly able and permitted to supply the docs without a SAR. But they want to play hardball.

Submit a SAR and refer to notices and communications from the council AND their agents.

AND once an OOT is submitted the council MUST suspend enforcement until a decision is served. This could be several weeks.

So it's NOT the council's 21 days v their response to a SAR, it's the time it takes TEC to process your OOT v the council's duty under GDPR.

A SAR is not necessary as it is only for getting personal data about you held by a registrant.

Instead, consider issuing a Notice under Rule 6 of the Pre-action Conduct and Protol. This compels the respondent to disclose the information you need to verify any potential impropriety that could lead to a claim. You also have the option to use an alternate address for service, which can help protect your current address from being disclosed.

A bailiff cannot serve a Notice on the reception because that is not where you live.

If you're worried about getting an SAR right, don't be! The burden is actually on the organisation to treat anything that looks like an SAR as an SAR.

As long as you prove who you are and you make it clear what you want the organisation to tell you, you'll be fine. The Information Commissioner has a guide  to making an SAR here:
https://ico.org.uk/for-the-public/getting-copies-of-your-information-subject-access-request/how-to-make-a-subject-access-request/

...but I think their guidance to organisations on how to recognise an SAR might actually be more useful to reassure you:
https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/uk-gdpr-guidance-and-resources/individual-rights/right-of-access/how-do-we-recognise-a-subject-access-request-sar/

Thanks to everyone for your input. There's some contradicting advice and I appreciate everyone is suggesting what they think is best.

I understand Pressman's concern about giving my current address. What I haven't mentioned is that the V5C address was changed to my current address this year (before this became an issue). Would that not mean that the bailiffs would get hold of it quite easily?

There seems to be a lot of layman's guidance online about issuing a SAR but the Rule 6 is sparse and complicated.

In the meantime I have drafted a SAR and attached it for review (redacted any personal details).

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/pu180kf3aascp8xpkdjrz/Letter_CityofLondon_SAR_240726.pdf?rlkey=arv88x2wrakug4pn2dsbcd7iu&st=jf3u4b2f&dl=0

Any feedback is welcome.

Thank you.

Thanks for the feedback, H C Andersen.

I tend to agree – the stress about having my family exposed to the fear, and potential experience, of bailiffs arriving at our door is not something I want.

As nobody else has given any alternative thoughts, I'll send the SAR this afternoon (along with your suggested amendment). If their response takes longer than the elapsed 21 days then I might pay the bailiffs before proceeding with the rest of the challenge.