3. At any time 1 April - 30 Sept
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At any time 1 April - 30 Sept
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Does a yellow sign stating 'At any time 1 April - 30 Sept' override parking on double yellows?

Thank you for any information/help.

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Re: At any time 1 April - 30 Sept
« Reply #1 on: »

See Item 1, Part 4:

Waiting of vehicles prohibited at all times

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/schedule/7/made

Subject to paragraph (3), these Regulations extend to the whole of Great Britain.

(3) Provision about the school crossing patrol sign extends only to England and Wales(1).


DYL do not need traffic signs.

You cannot have a part-time no waiting traffic sign in conjunction with DYL because they could mislead.
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Re: At any time 1 April - 30 Sept
« Reply #2 on: »
As HCA says, you can't have part-time 'No Waiting' sign with DYLs. Should have been a SYL alerting the motorist to the need to look for a sign. PLenty of such SYL combinations across the country, especially in popular summer holiday destinations.
Please furnish a GSV link to the location.

I wonder if this is an attempt to govern a stretch of highway inside a CPZ  or some such.

Is this a live case?
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Re: At any time 1 April - 30 Sept
« Reply #3 on: »
Many thanks to both of you for the information. Yes, I received a PCN for parking here today.

Here is a GSV link:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/mSMZ2t5HH7vf859NA

All along the road you can see those yellow signs stating 'At any time 1 April - 30 Sept'. So in short, I should appeal this ticket?
« Last Edit: October 21, 2023, 07:32:26 pm by cp8759 »
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Re: At any time 1 April - 30 Sept
« Reply #4 on: »
Please post up both sides of the unredacted PCN. If you use https://imgbb.com/ upload one side at a time, scroll down past the image and copy the BBCode, then past each BBCode in your post hear.

Thanks for posting the GSV. The sign in situ is here
https://maps.app.goo.gl/WHhuGnEcwr9SWtnr9

I assume you were parked the same side of the road as the the sign?

I am not sure that the sign I found is the one in your photo, but GSV is 2 years old. Incidentally the signs have co-existed with the DYL since at least 2011.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2023, 01:55:09 pm by John U.K. »
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Re: At any time 1 April - 30 Sept
« Reply #5 on: »
Quote from: John U.K. on October 21, 2023, 01:27:54 pm
Thanks for posting the GSV. The sign in situ is here
https://maps.app.goo.gl/WHhuGnEcwr9SWtnr9

I assume you were parked the same side of the road as the the sign?

Yes, I was parked between that sign and the car just before it, where it reads on GSV 'THE STRAND'
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Re: At any time 1 April - 30 Sept
« Reply #6 on: »
Glad you were on the same side.
I cannot see the name of the enforcing authority (I think that is mandatory?). Pembrokeshire County Council is mentioned in passing lower down, payment is to be made to WPPP whoever he, she or it may be).


The pCN was a tad small, so here a larger version


« Last Edit: October 21, 2023, 02:05:44 pm by John U.K. »
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Re: At any time 1 April - 30 Sept
« Reply #7 on: »
thank you
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Re: At any time 1 April - 30 Sept
« Reply #8 on: »
Found the bit about PCN contents:

Quote
Contents of a penalty charge notice served under regulation 5

1.  A penalty charge notice served under regulation 5 must, in addition to the matters required to be included in it by regulation 3(2) of the Representations and Appeals Regulations, state—

(a)The date on which the notice is served

(b)the name of the enforcement authority;

(c)the registration mark of the vehicle involved in the alleged contravention;

(d)the date and the time at which the alleged contravention occurred;

(e)the grounds on which the civil enforcement officer issuing the notice believes that a penalty charge is payable;

(f)the amount of the penalty charge;

(g)that the penalty charge must be paid before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date on which the alleged contravention occurred;

(h)that if the penalty charge is paid before the end of the period of 14 days beginning with the date on which the notice is served, the penalty charge will be reduced by the amount of any applicable discount;

(i)the manner in which the penalty charge must be paid;

(j)that if the penalty charge is not paid before the end of the period of 28 days referred to in subparagraph (g), a notice to owner may be served by the enforcement authority on the owner of the vehicle;

(k)that a person on whom a notice to owner is served will be entitled to make representations to the enforcement authority against the penalty charge and may appeal to an adjudicator if those representations are rejected; and

(l)that, if representations against the penalty charge are received at such address as may be specified for the purpose before a notice to owner is served,-

(i)those representations will be considered;

(ii)but that, if a notice to owner is served notwithstanding those representations, representations against the penalty charge must be made in the form and manner and at the time specified in the notice to owner.

The Civil Enforcement of Parking Contraventions (Penalty Charge Notices, Enforcement and Adjudication) (Wales) Regulations 2008
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2008/609/schedule/paragraph/2/made

I am not sure that this PCN satisfies regulation 1(b).
This would give you two grounds of appeal:
1) that the PCN is defective in not clearly identifying the name of the enforcing authority.
and
2)
the presence of the sign (attach photo) led you to believe that, notwithstanding the presence of Double Yellow Lines, waiting was permitted from 1st.October - 31st.March inclusive.

Wait to see what the experts here have to say, then post a draft here before sending, but do not miss the expiry of the discount period.

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Re: At any time 1 April - 30 Sept
« Reply #9 on: »
You're a star John, thanks for your help
« Last Edit: October 21, 2023, 03:02:01 pm by belikewater »
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Re: At any time 1 April - 30 Sept
« Reply #10 on: »
I have this so far...

I am writing to contest the Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) I received today while I was parked on The Strand in Saundersfoot. The primary reason for my appeal is that the signage, which I have included pictures of for your reference, was misleading. It gave me the impression that waiting was permissible from the 1st of October to the 31st of March, inclusive.

Furthermore, I would like to bring to your attention that the PCN in question does not clearly identify the name of the enforcing authority, which, as stated in the Contents of a penalty charge notice served under regulation 5 b), is a mandatory requirement.

I am eager to hear your response to my appeal.
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Re: At any time 1 April - 30 Sept
« Reply #11 on: »
WPPP is the Welsh consortium of councils that enforce...fairly sure that this is classed as the enforcing authority and accepted but worth a shot, if only to see how they reply.

The post signs are mis-leading that needs to be added, not everyone is an expert and to the average motorist imply that restrictions only apply between the dates.

And in the back of my mind is something about DYLs that apply for more then 6 months but not all year are acceptable with appropriate post signs.--- A revisit to TSM is required.

Hmmmm.
TSM 3 says
13.4.3.  The double yellow line to diagram 1018.1 (S7‑4‑1, see Figure 13-6) applies at all times.
It is not used for a seasonal 24‑hour prohibition of waiting; the single yellow line to diagram
1017 (S7‑4‑2, see Figure 13-7) is used for this purpose.

But still have the thought that seasonal were allowed to be marked/signed in the fashion here??
Generally if signs were historically allowed then they can remain until replaced and I am wondering if this is the case here?
Even if not, the post signs mis-lead and that should win at the end.

Another edit.
Historical copy of TSM 3  dated 2008
6.7 The sign to diagram 637.3 is used where a
prohibition of waiting at any time applies for a
period less than 12 months of the year, but for at
least four consecutive months. Such a prohibition is
likely to be imposed where there is seasonal traffic,
for example at a holiday resort. The sign is used
with the double yellow line to diagram 1018.1.

Sign 637.3 is the one shown...1018.1 is DYLs

Exactly as Op shows.

This contravention didn't occur as the signage in place shows that no restriction existed.

Cannot see a loss now
« Last Edit: October 21, 2023, 03:37:44 pm by DancingDad »
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Re: At any time 1 April - 30 Sept
« Reply #12 on: »
You could have seasonal restrictions with DYL. If I recall correctly they used to have to be 24/7 for a minimum of 5 months.

They are mentioned in the highway code.

October through March you can park there.

If the signage rules have changed that is highly misleading.

"13.4.3.  The double yellow line to diagram 1018.1 (S7‑4‑1, see Figure 13-6) applies at all times. It is not used for a seasonal 24‑hour prohibition of waiting; the single yellow line to diagram 1017 (S7‑4‑2, see Figure 13-7) is used for this purpose. There is no time limit in replacing any seasonal double yellow line with a single yellow line; this should normally be done under routine
maintenance or when the road is resurfaced."

There are loads of these near me. None have been changed.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2023, 03:51:56 pm by slapdash »
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Re: At any time 1 April - 30 Sept
« Reply #13 on: »
There's a lot of DYL and SYL here on the south Kent coast that are seasonal. They have the yellow plates with dates on.
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Bus driving since 1973. My advice, if you have a PSV licence, destroy it when you get to 65 or you'll be forever in demand.
Re: At any time 1 April - 30 Sept
« Reply #14 on: »
WOW thank you all very much for your knowledge and info!

I will put together a more comprehensive response using the above mentions and get that sent off.

Really appreciate everyones help.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2023, 05:27:20 pm by belikewater »
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